The Hans Zimmer Composer Round Table

we could make this into like an incredible plug for Spitfire because there could the quality of the libraries have kept us so busy I'm loving the 10 years so anyway what what my suspicion is Spitfire have finally copped to where they cut the hole inspiration from for doing us libraries and they've tried to sort of copy what we've done with strings etc forever except of course they've taken it one step too far um the Zima thing and like really crazy so when I did scores was 28 celli thinking that's a lot of cherry right they've actually done 60 but I know that on Dunkirk correct me if I'm wrong been I had 32 basis it's only and I I do believe this is where Spitfires let us down a little bit because they only using 24 bases it's an enormous amount of violas an enormous amount you know so everything is balanced and it was just the experiment of what would happen if you down the center have one section of celli let's say and then to the right you could have them and to the left you can have them people always go oh it's a string library they forget it's not a string library it's these individual players it's those people that we know with those instruments and that's that's what makes the whole difference and it's like all the people in this room with the exception of Andy mr. synthesizer well no no but in a funny way it's it's all the players we have worked with over the years and we sort of know are suddenly you know and it's about the individuals and then you actually hear the individuals and it's actually recorded in a room that we we know there's a reason we go to those places it's not just because we like the Indian takeaway even though there's such refined us in your writing and then every once in a while it gets really huge and I was thinking oh Henry will know Henry will know how to how to make something that is incredibly huge but somehow still seems to have the air of refinement about it it's sort of English education you got to guys have been doing on blue planet with you know because that was I thought that was very cool that Spitfire actually designed a library but for what you were doing yeah you know so you know forget that it's a strain library nowadays it's like because the library that I love is the one I can never pronounce the guy's name on there you know because I always call them Arnold olaf's which is really it's okay no because I love I love the because you've got this and it's really about the player strings he's done two now one is it's like a very small like octet on kind of sound and then the other one is now at the chamber section right it's really textural to like it it's you know he has these evolutions that kind of that start as one thing and they develop it's yeah it's kind of like it ends up being like a weird secret weapon that you can throw on something but I mean but but what we did as well I mean you know when we went to London on a recent movie let's just keep it nameless for now you know that this whole idea of actually having really big sections but have this sort of individual sort of move within them and really extraordinary things there was like some symphonic chema musical most they are these waves and everyone bouncing off each other and the chaos that came from that it was sad lots of surprises it was quite beautiful yes but well of course you've been making a living relying on one solo channel talk about the intimate sound you pick your library in a funny way because of the players and their instruments and you want you want to you want to make sure it's not about them like a you know I'm saying this looking at microphone an owl would kill me but it's it's actually not about the mic so much it's you want people who have really great instruments you know and really play with a start well there's a kind of relationship that these musicians have I mean these instruments are kind of an extension of who they are and especially when you go to air it's it's this terrifying idea this unbelievable sort of just expansive expensive very old and gorgeous estimated it's quite quite overwhelming actually but actually actually I loved I think I can tell this I mean I think I took you to air for the first time when we were doing Batman Begins and you got like you had the best room because you had the Attic like hideout and Chris would just live up there with you you know experiments were going on forever you know so I I liked that everybody I mean everybody in this room has a connection in one way or the other with those players and and I think what was fun for those players is because those players never all get booked for one session right and they all know each other yeah yeah you know and so I listen to a bit of love it's funny talking about individual players because I still sometimes take you've got an oboe sample from back in the day that has actually weirdly become a kind of archive memorial the plane you can end up because the technology you guys some weird time displacement where when the frail fingers of an actual amazing player failed you to old age the sample weirdly lives on so it ends up being this quite poignant record of a type of playing that there's more to that story because that oboist he realized at a certain point in his life that he wasn't sounding that great anymore and he actually went on to Chelsea bridge or Waterloo Bridge and took his oboe and threw it into the Thames so yes really it's like it's a bit like Tony priests cello yeah she's my favorite cello and then Tony sold it and stopped playing and I'm going I you know so sampling becomes this thing where were actually you you can still have the tone of yours that police libraries is amazing a chic especially when he plays unbelievably quietly unbelievably high nothing quite as fragile and makes you lean in we can do that would be like a picture editor just pulling up footage of Brando whereas and when he feels like it we got all of this performances but it is amazing that we do that so this because people are not familiar with you know how how sophisticated the sampling is a property sort of not fully aware of how much the performance especially so especially stuff you did the stuff that you've done over the years that is solo instruments actually really does become a mmm a record of people's well and its personality yeah and part of their personality of cursory you guys all know this because you've done it is of course they want to do what you want them to do so you're you know you're you're sort of a co-defendant and you know coke criminal Ramin remembers very well days and days of sitting at air recording Batman ostinatos and nearly it nearly ruined a perfectly good friendship between everybody right I mean you know it was one of the worst ideas ever maybe were they how long was it three three months four months we were there for long we were in it for a while but but but yeah III don't know you see somehow managed by having that attic room you've managed to keep like yeah you you had sanity you know you had that the elevator couldn't even reach anymore you have to take the stairs for the last rites great and and and so when whenever you wanted a bit of sanity you'd go take the elevator and then walk up to remains room in comes like like you you busily made magic while everybody else was going slightly insane buildings amazement has all these kind of hidden passages and rooms upstairs really does yeah but you know it's just think talking about Batman Begins because when I was having like some pompous music philosopher it is sort of interesting the way the way all those Austin also has worked actually it's sort of an interesting question that is to do with that kind of stuff sounds absolutely brilliant as samples when the samples are amazing and you almost end up when a score is that concept driven and it feels you know it's the sort of parts that you could put in a sequencer as much as an orchestra the fact that it's all been so many samples have been used actually sort of comes full circle so that what you're asking of players is actually starting to be influenced by it more secret right type well that's a very specific thing we're not asking DaVinci carpet in that specific case well but our original idea was correct me if I'm wrong we were trying to write an electronica score and get an orchestra to before exactly which is not a commercial or casual attitude was it was there was some there were some learning involved for the players like on the creek so did you spend time before just recording the ostinatos no we actually did it last which was because we wanted them separate and that that was sort of they were saying we'd recorded the queue so we thought we'd done and then we had to go and we caught every cue again just for that another layer and that's what became like oh my god this was such a bad idea I thought we were done and then I don't think people were really doing that at the time I mean we then took those recordings these performances and we had music editors everywhere just tightening in of them up so yes it had been so if if it had been samples it would have been a lot easier that's where all bad ideas you learned something from but I just think it's just thanks for exactly and because that kind of writing is sort of sequencer and sample driven conceptually it ends up in a really interesting gray area because if you actually as well as having samples around in the mix room if you have these Austin are so poised but they're also managed timing wise it you're more in a sort of Trevor Horn production territory than a Deutsche Grammophon you know the name is except for you know it does something to the emotion in the room where you have a huge Orchestra who you know they've just come from a rehearsal with you know with no kick track and they're they're used to playing just after the downbeat yes everyone's together and they breathe together to the exact other end of the spectrum where there's a machine gun in your ear right and you got to play four notes between each machine gun right and and it's physically very exhausting and you know you've got to do this for three hours without hatred yes with exactly with love with musicality with expression and it's kind of puts you in a sort of strange place I think as a musician which will affect mrs. Batman Begins this is about someone you know mental illness creating nightmares for people maybe there was a bit of method acting earlier in the school that wasn't what's interesting from Hansbrough just speaking to you for a second I'm sure you don't mind but what's crate was crazy about its hands having put that idea together you know as you go to London to record it the massive big picture of how this whole jigsaw is going to be put together if you find yourself on the second row on day 7 of that you don't necessarily have that so you have to trust there's like this you you may be a player's thinking this doesn't make an enormous amount of sense to me I said well you know what it doesn't it but but there are people for whom it does right and the whole jigsaw is gonna be put together and ready you may not necessarily understand when you're on bar 19 yeah the other the other things I mean we you know I mean look you're working with his brother right now I mean one of the great things about what has happened over time is now that directors actually trust us that we go this this will sound a little weird but all all the strings are going to do is go diggy diggy diggy do you know for a very very long time but then I have this thing in my head which you can't hear yet because it's just in my head you know and it will turn into a piece of music you know eventually well I'm not sure music is the correct but I mean look you you you then ran off screaming quite rightly so and decided to do your own thing and do you have to because Game of Thrones which I have now studied extensively while on tour I mean it just absolutely saved my life on the pass every night you know you got so many styles of music in it and you got so many different things going on so that that your me going oh well we had to sit there and record ostinatos for Batman it's nothing compared to what you've been up to which is seventh seasons so how many years of your life has it been it's been you know 2011 so yeah let's not do the math yeah it's like because when we were working on Batman Begins so we thought that's it right we're gonna go1 Batman movie we'll never do a secret or anything like this and to people it it was three movies but to us it was 12 years of our life you know it's like you know Chris walking in one day and saying oh I got this other idea you know and oh suddenly we were doing the Dark Knight but if you think about it you know in the amount of life that we've actually put into I'm not saying I'm begrudging it's it's it's I can't say it's always fun but it's always interesting it's always discovering something you're very mean but you see because because I condensed your life or the work you did into binging every night many many many episodes and going oh I see oh hang on that's the demo oh I see new ideas coming it oh he's got a little port here so he's put a new whole new spin onto something I mean am i reading this correctly yeah no and I wish it would come that quickly the struggle of getting there – right yeah Batman Begins I think it's a good example to use because I thought we only had to surf this one movie we had to serve this amount of time I never knew we had to come back to these ostinatos and suddenly by the second one you go oh my god did I actually write myself into a corner what else can I do with it that I did because I did everything I could with it in the first one you throw everything I mean don't don't you find that that it's like you've done it all and then you sort of have to go and revisit it and weirdly you do find that there's a new well it's that thing of way you know you give yourself certain restrictions in order to generate something fresh it's almost better than having everything on the because then it's you know it's an embarrassment of riches and I guess whenever the betterment of ready yeah I mean I got empty drawers I felt it when you said earlier to me that you finally found it your eyes you know and I didn't react Church promise I sort of went great he's going to live another day you know I mean do you or because I think people assumed that we who seem to be you know people just see the end product right just like you said you know well I wish it had come as quickly as I watched it right I mean they they understand their struggle you know you've got to find the idea and then you've gotta find the tune that actually matches the concept of this idea and it takes it takes it's it's never just sit down and don't know is what they're really frustrating things it's always on an annoying exponential curve which is why I meet me I haven't done massive successful extensive TV like for me but what the amount of energy required to get exactly the right ideas for the characterization the narrative or anything is the big brain time and then when you actually do figure it out yes and then keep saga and then by the time you get to the end you like you can throw another two of these movies because we all know what we are it's finished we got to do it again with a completely different films now set in like 16th century France and like they forget it's a bit like building a Formula One car on the next season it's helicopter rides so you can't you can't just wheel out the same no I mean III mean seriously what your word you're talking about it's I mean there's the thing that I am that just floors me is how you manage to keep this incredibly complicated structure going you know right it's the arc is we all know amazing yeah yes it's funnier in yeah I try to challenge myself every time when I start a new season of thinking of how can I do something new and how can I develop what I had started into something else and and at what point during that process to go I made such a terrible mistake I should she stuck with the thing for suddenly putting a piano in mm-hmm I noticed that you're not going why is he suddenly putting a piano in and I was thinking he's trying to tell me something you you're saying to me it's a lie am i right so something as simple as oh he changed his vocabulary it's a tiny bit and you changed it in a really subtle way I mean it's it's the most benign instrument you could pass it on or instrument you could just put it right and that made me go danger and up to that point we had never used it so and it didn't feel like oh I've run off colors and so now I'm gonna do this that would be the kazoo vibraslap so that was that was planned right I mean completely it completely translated to somebody as idiotic as me who to this day does not know the characters names I can never remember character's name yeah but but also that shows evolved a lot like I couldn't imagine the scene that you're talking about in the first season like it's it's become kind of a different show and I feel like the music has changed a lot right yeah definitely yeah the music just kind of follows that that development of those progress and their development I mean that's interesting doesn't really happen in movies because it's self-contained I mean it's not like you get reels one at well sometimes you do but generally you get a movie so it's sort of interesting when something's that long the actual the process and yeah yeah is not you the whole way you're trying to get to and laying pipe on the rest of it is a bit more kind of on the flight because it you're rolling with where they're going as opposed to knowing the last scene in a three and a half hour long Terry Malick though at least you know what the last you know it's fascinating you know it's quite interesting and the writers also don't necessarily know that's what's that mean as yes I was really in this sense of the Breaking Bad craters and I was saying you know they were gonna kill off Jesse just in that first season and and just it was too good he was to essentially and he is the most iconic you know character and TV so you know and but the fact that they were completely unaware of its character when they started yes it's amazing it's a particular skill because imagine a circle you could get your knickers in a bit of a twist in relation to events that have gone before and I imagine it's the same with the music it's got to grow out of where it came in just a new stuff doesn't just completely appear out of nowhere but it's also got a move with well-known oh yeah but you're constantly laying pipe oh yeah yeah do you yeah and I listen to my show runners a lot I mean they set me up in this that look this particular tune that you're gonna write for this character needs to do this three seasons later so I listen to them okay so they're aware enough their way and they got me and then I write it that way that I know eventually it has to do it is to go bigger and has a darker something and according to that that's how I tried to set it up but I think this is another thing that people who don't write film musical television or whatever whatever it is we do they don't realize that we have to not only just come up with a tune or a motif or something that is a good piece of music it has to become efficient it has to be able to turn in yes malleable it has to become evil yeah but not all those things you know it's making a stem stone less out which can be yeah create all kinds of other permutations and I've seen the potential what I'm finding I'm constantly writing myself into chorus by by by having an idea Joe cheering it's like and then half way down half way down the road you go it becomes an unsolvable burden so yeah I remember you telling interesting story like that to do with having to get rid of one of your favorite caught you would you were starting to work on so it was cut off it was a stage but because you're really good at knowing you've got to kick the tires really heavily on something to know it can do all the things it needs to do and you weren't happy with it and and eventually the solution was to shoot your favorite toy no I had this car yeah and that was actually the beginning of where where the problem was being dismissed the one thing you didn't want to get rid of the whole thing start to fall into place once I got rid of my favorite bit I mean really you know like like I most the time I just I'm just happy if it's not you know it's not not Samsung a grown up composer and then that was the thing that you know and then I had to go on Kenneth because you know I could not it stopped any any progress from happening yeah it's like oh Henry and you know I know about this well the preview goes really well with the temp music oh yeah and everybody goes but the preview went well so therefore we should do what the temp music no temp musica C is the enemy of invention you know it's like you can't it absolutely unless the preview goes badly which is a good thing that is fantastic if the spottings just sort of in the right place and that's about it oh it's actually really useful when it's complete because it produces an angry feeling of what yeah you know the creative reaction that becomes even more sort of fervent because it's like every I'm hearing is exactly what must never happen and so it actually it's mode it's motivating that only is a bit to posting if it turns they go oh no this is this is kind of great right yeah we'll talk about that I remember he made a very interesting point about Tim which is that for the few occasions where directors have unwisely temporarily potentially not giving you all the freedom that you want because of a temp moment I hate the freedom comes responsibility you make the interesting points that we look before you all start freaking out on this piece of music being incredibly similar to the frame and to the shake blah blah blah don't forget that the piece of music that you've fallen in love with a certain point in time was a free it was written in a free environment where someone wasn't behaving how you are behaving right now yeah which is it because otherwise everything would be a recycled version of something that something that someone's got used to but you have to start with at some point there have been pieces where there has not been a tyrannical regime of obsessing about exactly what one which I thought was a really good point well hang on who in this room hasn't been in the situation where every time we do something right every time we get a job basically what they say just we want something new then you do something new and then you know people sitting around this table listening to it and they're going and and I've really learned and I wonder if you have this as well on you because you're doing new all the time to something that has a set path yeah and you're doing something new you sometimes you didn't it's it's like why and you need to give them a second thought to breathe and to get used exactly what you remember that moment hidden figures with tab mal fear there was in the montage scene it was tempts with this very serious lots of up her Geo's kind of they're really getting down to business pay attention and furrow was in the room and you know they will this is the tent this is gonna this and he just kind of went to the keyboard and just started playing a bass line which was just basically a kind of funk bass line and just and very simple and and it's just any sort of put some drums on and them this is go with this and Ted narrative like wow really like the temp and then there's side news there was this wonderful moment a week later where we presented the the result in queue which was this kind of insane big band funk gospel thing couldn't be more different from the temp and Ted sort of was like a GOG and his reaction which i think is the greatest compliment was I think I loved it I like we play again that is like yeah I love it everybody just it was that exactly what you're saying it needs a bit of audience yeah and then the or and of course the audience loved it right you know because it was kind of business yeah it was you know but so how do you get to preview anything oh is it all in the in the in the privacy of your own paranoia definitely yeah it's all second-guessing yourself yeah yeah go to your Braverman no because my last resort always is you know if if there's a is this a good idea as as a parody I'm going let's pull out in front of an audience let's go and see what they say and yes I have been taught many things by an audience going that is I mean but sorry we're supposed to in one way or the other yeah that's where the samples come in really handy because I can go and at least it's not me on the piano doing it's like able to workshop I am actually going but you invented that I mean when he when he started something the orchestra everyone was demoing on the piano I mean as far yeah but maybe not everyone but I don't know but it was a way of being articulate about it and the other thing is and this is I mean this was the thing where I was I will take credit for this something was absolutely thought of as the enemy of orchestras at the time you know and especially our casual players were all growing right know run the other way and I remember going to all those players in London saying let me sample you and I promise you I guarantee you it will create more work because I will be able to convince directors more easily that an orchestra sound is something relevant and commercial and will will enhance will enhance your picture you know and then most of you in this room at one point or the other you've got to have to you know have the same tools and and convince your directors and go yes it sounds great on these samples but there's this player I know of this cellist you you know we get like we we use different chalice because you and I and I love that you know because you you write for that chalice and that is a particular tone that is so important to that series you use different players yeah I think he's you definitely use different players because I know I walk into a band well first session I don't know anybody whoa there's so many players like there's so much talent yeah and there's this amazing thing that happens I've always found like when you have a director in the room with the demos and you know framing it in such that this is a bit like you know you're doing your color grade or you're doing it edit you can touch the music cause you can touch the samples you can change things on the fly but that moment where you're in the room with those those players and a lot of people who you know don't necessarily always do sessions they're just you know really great young talent there's a kind of energy I feel like with the filmmakers where they feel like that they're on set against sometimes and they can actually reach out and touch the music and inject story just through performance in the same way they work with an older and that's that's a really amazing wonderful thing which i think means that orchestras will always be part of our culture and film music it's I mean having just an all-electronic score which was an amazing experience going back as the orchestra is yeah can I talk about that because Bend being kept on coming so from the world of having been so immersed in the world of the orchestra he actually put some Orchestra sessions on blade row and I kept saying great that's a really good idea that's loving that let's just move them down a little bit that'd be another cue that was totally electronic and oh yeah that's pretty good out there so we don't need an orchestra I don't know yeah I ended up with one cue with a little bit of Webster it's what what you want you know that's that's why I think that the you know the only isolate what I call the Icelandic intimate strings right is this one palette and it's really specific because you can hear those players and then you know that like you what's that sound you always use but fire library which I love well there's this felt under loud though it came from actually I think the very first beta of their when they started making samples and then thankfully if they put it into some later libraries and it's there's something about you can hear the breath of the boat yeah and just you creep it in and such where the audience have no idea that this it's there but by the time you you're there you're emotionally engaged and especially the way they've recorded it you know beautifully up in the gallery it's it's it's one of those sounds which is literally the top of my template I mean you know look part of why why I got into this sampling thing is is because those musicians inspired me and I just wanted them I wanted to have them hanging around with yeah you know it's like there you go yeah such a thing is like a true pianist man I remember back when I was studying conducting there was this when I went one of the lessons was how to actually create a pianist in our own Orchestra is actual one of the hardest things was your piece enlightened well it was just this thing of if you can hear the player next to you you're too loud and I remember watching rehearsals back you know well maybe that players too well that were yes is that but it's this it's a it creates so much tension in a good way you know it's and it actually I think requires even more energy than playing a huge fortissimo but if there's something so ethereal and just emotive I love I love I love that you actually say that because I've never been able to articulate it but it's it really is the truth that that the lot of the time that I spent the longest with an orchestra is is to try to get them to play quietly it's so hard it's all it's so hard to get beautiful nice very tension quiet I'm always going I think edge off right someone's going to stall exactly if that was pinis I'm cool okay so if you think that spin is about I'm calling that like mezzo Forte plus yeah so you're gonna have to go through the performance pride I mean working or movie where the whole point was to be as franchise for a bit like what you're saying you get to the point where the consistency is falling apart and the tones bullying and sometimes they're quite embarrassed about that not realizing that's actually a process the story the more it sounds that you're clinging on for dear life but what you say about this sort of performance pride is it's quite amazing seeing a section go okay this is insane but we're gonna nail it on this next part and there's something it's like that team spirit and you don't want to be the guy who comes into the wrong it's quite it's very inspiring well I have a feeling that part of what Paul and Christian were trying to do on this new library was to get all these players into a room that there would be a little bit of competitiveness Jarius like Ohio said well you know you know I've I better I better give because the guy next to me can hear if it's the most beautiful tone or not you know so and think it's itself an amazing testament to the you know that these orchestras are wrong but that you can actually find 60 amazing chalice in London do it and there's no chanting going on there's no dodgy play you know it's bit more difficult to tell someone slightly had a chairman says 60 of them no doesn't your ear go because I have I don't know I don't know this is sort of a question for everybody I always hear the person that place was the least confidence and actually place quiet ill in my ear just goes there he doesn't know why he's playing that nervous he doesn't know the contest is just there you know and and that's what fuck's up the performance for me you know I think what happens is when you have a mass of players is because you can never do it in real life I mean part part of it was to try to do something that you can never ever III don't think samples should be about mimicking reality I think they should sort of try to supersede reality so to have a section which is that large it's basically about getting something which is so silky and so you know that you know that the the mass of air being moved in a quiet yet undeniable force is actually really interesting and it's probably no other room in the world that could even accommodate that air if you think well Abbey Road look Abbey Road one you can put a lot of players and it's a different the height it's the height yes and it's it's all the swimmy stuff I just really hope that Pope Mike's right at the back and see all the sound of teller yeah from back there that might be it's such a versatile room because he could Batman Begins I mean the one of the it wasn't about writing a tune it was about this idea that the French horns would be up in the gallery so – right architectural e sometimes we I'm sure all of you have done similar weird things you know it's fine I'm having to get you start as a choir boy in supposed evil because there is thirteen point two seconds and I'm worried so it's fun if your singing talents or Palestrina victorious I think it's fine because it's all modal harmonies not gonna have some octatonic shift and it all sounds great and then you some pompous nineteenth-century guff like Perry or Stanford or something just sounds like a disaster because by the time you roll throughout the you know late 19th century chords down in the net it's it's all become a completely different things so so there's you know you're in good historical but the horn for thinking architecture right but then if you look at those unbelievable like that the talus those works which are all about and Tiffany as well surround the audience in a in an immersive experience I mean that's kind of yeah that's a Shinto Jeremiah sort of like right the seven point one that's it and it's kind of I guess what we will strive for when we record film music and now demo it is in a mess like truly immersive to the audience and but that idea is 500 years old I mean it yeah they just didn't have quite so many faders such a lesson that when Ridley was shooting Hannibal and Florence he was shooting a scene at the monastery that had a small Brunelleschi chapel and so everything was you know it's cordoned off because they were shooting and I wasn't I was in the chapel which really became a storeroom and this tourist had somehow managed to wander and and he didn't see me I was just guys I'm you know what box them whatever he started really quietly humming and so exciting the room and started harmonizing with him it was just like oh that's what this right that's like a me images you know roll it round and right but to see somebody who you know he knew he could do that in that room and he'd obviously snuck past all the dogs everything because that it's a mastery that is always closed and except for when you have a film crew and he pay the money but it was just such a such a great lesson and and and acoustics that's why you have to record in really good rooms I mean it doesn't you know it's not just some researchers it's not just the instrument you you know you you picked your you right to the room don't you right to the room don't you right to the room yes brass players play the room to that correct creating legato just knowing how long they happen you know yeah I know I know they want that yeah gives you an extra so I often take quaver off right as the air does that yes it does the clave it they're glad for anyway yeah because they're good breathe and the circuit right a louder so much so many programed brass with actual legato which is impossible it always sounds unrealistic Isabel yeah if you hear a sing on you edit out all that all the breaths it's like you actually feel physically strange there's something wrong yeah it's it's about a string player see that too it's always amazing that sense of if they're gonna come in together and you don't breathe with them if you're you know out there waving around zero there's no way they're going to tear it's that sort of that shared breath the wind players brass players – it's quite oh no it's quite a amazing thing to be part of I I like doing samples not to click mmm but conducted it sounds different yeah yeah that's an interesting yeah but because it's a shared breath that's it I never knew what Paul's secret formula was there was this thing about this bit far away when they started what is the secret fire but for my other status it is about that but it's like playing melodies or playing in such a way that it's not just okay here's a D sharp in five different [Laughter] and made them stand out from the beginning cause it I'm not wanting to do sin e other libraries but there was nothing else like it when they started doing it well it's not dissing our loners I mean I use all the I I use whatever I can that makes an interesting noise for the appropriate thing I mean I bet you use everything you can right kinds of baseball cards a good some pieces I think what's interesting is that like a lot of the new libraries are starting to emphasize the imperfection and I think it's really inspiring to like for instance the one that we use for for blue planet they have these clouds you know sort of Epping and flowing all you know these articulations and sometimes they would you know there'd be like a woodwind or brass they would pop up a little too much that you couldn't necessarily use it in a in the way that you wanted to but like you'd hear like a rhythm in the way that it would they would do that and and maybe that would create a loop that would just you know create the rhythmic start to a cue or something so you know but the Icelandic strings that you're talking about I think it's interesting that like it used to be let's get as perfect as clean as possible and now it's kind of like let's get some character and dip them all yes yeah because I'm crazy I just thought oh crazy anyway I don't think it's just because he ya know I got a nickel as a Tina and then power and power and everybody because I thought these are great but these belong to our Lord Allah for Arnold's okay thank you please maybe forgive me but what was so interesting is that you you gave the same instructions but two different musicians yeah and they sounded totally different well that's the thing you know it's it's it goes without saying you'd think you know play so the sound almost breaks but this violinist you know he has a just different method of producing that and and know if that was a an interesting thing putting them side by side yeah and and I don't think it was fair of Tina to post a picture on facebook of how our fingers look yeah I bled my pinkie member on the holiday oh yeah I wrote some ridiculous piano part in the full knowledge that you were getting all excited about the MIDI bass and because I knew it was gonna be fed MIDI to whatever that machines cool it was just ridden right man enough meets ugly side doesn't matter I'm not going to play it you know we fight it through the machine yeah with bitter comping yeah like oh they're in the piano yes but no on the dance floor but yeah but I don't regret that was great I mean but but that's the whole point I mean isn't that the point of everything we do you know there's no reason for Spitfire to do some insanely crazy SuperDuper expensive library right now other than that that it's fed by the ambition of us because we want to go and write an impossible piece of music and we want to have some impossible new tools that inspire us to do something that nobody has ever done before right because because I mean again I'm looking at the history of your life which has now been in a funny way all those years have been very much been defined by Game of Thrones recently that it's gotta be an adventure and it's gotta be something it's all in part if it if you knew now that everything you've done on that series if at the beginning on day one somebody said to you this is the task this is what you're going to do this is this is the amount of music you're going to write the this is the amount of unsolvable problems we're gonna present to you would you have said yes to the following problem the cast of characters and this is what's gonna have it that's quite daunting for sure it's what you said yes or would you have said let me give you a phone number of somebody I know that you should probably do this now definitely have to sleep over but you didn't because it's out like whatever I mean the opening titles felt like impossible and then you wrote them and then you managed to move on right what do you write them on did you write them on a piano I mean I'm sorry this is really like a dumb question just because it's so obviously written for that player I think I think it was on the piano yeah I had the cello in mind but it wasn't just a cello it was that player right because I mean do do you do this you do you write for particular players in mind well yeah sometimes I'll start to get into the discipline that I'll just put the name you know how something can get a bit technical and it's like cello just a toast for time people don't like it get rid of that just put Steve because well the apartment part for me is because it stops you the limitations of samples which are getting fewer and fewer but you know if you listen to John Tavener you'll son I think yo-yo Ma's been sitting on that Allegra see yeah for one minute and 57 seconds so far and it sounds amazing it's just gonna sit on the Emmy yeah it's gonna and so but to reassure yourself you just sort of put Steve yes oh I Steve oh absolutely you know I mean I haven't held onto an Allegra see but but but the point being that if you do put an A it actually does sort of get you in mind of knowing it's gonna go a lot further however good the samples oh it's obviously gonna go well I have that I had that this is how far something gets come alright so the first DreamWorks animated movie Prince of Egypt the key scene the most important scene is no it's not the parting of time see you gotta get to the parting of the Red Sea wire the death of the first oh yes right death pretty grim right so good kid stuff do get something so I wrote this piece which I mocked up on the most horrible cello sample for literally solo channel one channel seeing Tony please in front of my eyes playing it and bringing it to life and I remember playing it to Jeffrey Katzenberg and he's going this you don't understand this is a key scene I mean oh no when the sky prays it on his channel it's going to be I promise you if it doesn't move you I'm gonna pay for for hope I'm rewrite it I'll pay for the whole Orchestra to come back he'll pay for us to all fly back to London first session Prince of Egypt no we're not doing that cue yet we're just doing any of something the cell phone rings and out in the orchestra everything Wow rude and then I see Tony getting up out of his chair packing his channel I'm going stop stop what's going on he's right listen mate gotta go wife's having a baby look let me go she's gonna have the baby I'll come back but after she's had the baby this could take a very long time luckily she had the baby relatively so that night he knows fashion and he came in and he sat down and and he was I mean you know he had a transcendent moment I see there just witnessed the birth of his child except out one take and in typical Tony fashion just how was that okay did you go to another no no that's and that was that you know and it really was that one player playing that beautiful instrument playing transcendently and that's that's what I want I want you know that's that's why we're still hunting down these samples because I am trying to have transcendent performances that we can use every day so that could have got really wrong I felt I felt defeat you know Plus bankruptcy it's also good to always be pushing for new things because in the same way that any given performance of an orchestral piece it's never the same thing twice even if it's the same Orchestra and even if it's with the same conductor if there's definitely a grass is greener if you just sit using the same samples all the time I don't know if you fact what you've done anyway so it's looking for new ones but you totally have the grass is green I don't ever have this experience is you're just in snow oh what's that that's kind of yeah those are really good and the reason you're thinking that is because when you hear the audio Oh Maude 66 it starts doing that and you go and you go into some other in actually be that they're better like you know it's no but that's what I mean there are no better samples or worse all right it's courses for course yeah I mean there are certain symbol roles I just cannot listen to you because I remind me oh there is performance in it because that's why you have that sickening feeling of and maybe that's why I have use the symbol role and trendy hot gear right you know or hop class marquetry oh no no mark trees yeah no no but yeah exactly it's it's it's no things which are sort of devices which in a funny way don't get really any more individual yeah and and and I make it in a in a funny way my duty to figure out yes a symbol role would be a perfect way to get to this cart you know so everybody else down a symbol role how can i reinvent the device how can i go and do something which isn't a symbol world then serves the same emotional problem so that was a spoke sort of you know by with the illustration i if you use echo where Henry's saying there's something that there's a sort of strange association you have with oh absolutely that chord played on that sample it's it's I personally think whenever there's a new score and you're gonna have to mock it up there's just something about I'm gonna buy this library and even if it's completely wrong there's gonna be something in it yeah it sparks something well well my world the symbol roll thing really got me because my flashback instantly to symbol rollers I used to have one sample of a symbol roll so it reminds me of abject poverty and so yes the the simple role days weren't that great you know let me put it that way there's gonna be a chapter no I don't ever want to go and use the symbol roll again because it were my plus it wasn't just not having money it was have it not having ideas neither you know because everybody else was using a symbol mo to get into the the cops or whatever you know I thought that's what you're supposed to do and then I realized I was sounding like everybody else and you're not supposed to do that yeah that's I got excited when you guys said Oh Blue Parrot we have an idea we have an idea for a different type of Orchestra that point dualistic thing you know I'm going oh good luck good luck dangerous but you know yeah it's just a different way of expressing a musical idea no well reinventing it I think oh you know we're thinking of I just love the idea that you guys were coming from a from a different disciplines we're looking at paintings during oh there's a painterly approach to this is a person you know III would have I would have done the draw will go and hunt down an instrument as opposed to what you guys were doing which was think about what would a painter do you know the nice thing was when you have six hours of music to write it was you know you have themes and then you also have the sound to go back to all the time that feels like another theme this this right this custom-made thing that's just for this project that has to do you know conceptually with what you're trying to do and it's the same thing as going back to a tune you know when you were when you bring up those sounds it was like okay we're in the ocean this is what we're trying to do so yeah it was yeah well that's that's my sampling and all that stuff is the devil's candy because yeah you sit on that project and then it sounded really good on this project and so everybody knows it now so you have to go and do it all over right and and find find a completely new way of doing it it's that discipline at the have a truly Bank slate even when you have four thousand sounds in front of you just don't have it yeah but but then I don't know I mean what do you do I mean you do you how do you have like a beautiful template not well because because you're laughs I'm not yeah I'm the own probably the only person who still refuses to give a way better even if you do have a billion things going on you can actually sort of manage it better but it has a more liquid wake you I mean I've started flipping the cube a submit' has a much better way of whilst you do have a million things hang on I'm in shock that this system of management exists or that I've even touched no no because I I love that that I mean you know we've had this experience you know where we both work on the same on the same thing but it's not just because we are different people but because you use different technology the result is slightly different you know it becomes really interesting I mean you were so where I am no no not where you are so I headed like audio manipulation you and Andy actually are very much I mean the same well I I think actually you are the worst because you you you you you means the best yeah because you show no loyalty to any sequence or anything like this you know you always use what's best for your idea anyway and you have a template exactly so everything is fresh it's like lipstick do you know it's it's like eating a Nobu you know you know and and it's only sometimes that I come and say you know something it might be really a good if you just used to bug study we are really out of time yeah that the sequencer is just as much an instrument as DeSales as well you know is this that that relationship there yeah I mean I I've always been secretly sequencer agnostic I think yeah you know and sometimes I use logic sometimes if use Ableton sometimes most of the time I use Pro Tools because of the audio facility what but um yeah I mean in each program has their own way of its own sort of set of limitations and advantages so I think to be able to sort of go back and forth between them is a really useful thing it's like having a bunch of your tiles or a bunch of cents for a bunch of sample hmm and what being loyal to anyone in particular ya know except Lee you do it you'd I mean he does it to an extreme degree you know which which is exactly which is the great thing because you know it's like by be your predicted what is predictable about Andy is the unpredictability of what what's gonna what's gonna happen there and then there's this sort of amazing picture that is being created the subsonic thing that you know you never heard before you never expect it right you know it's really good and it it's it really is a painterly approach you know and it's you know it and it could only be Ondi you know it's like there's like a big signature on the bottom of fetch which is really cool I guess in ProTools also that your sessions is that you're committing to ideas from the start and so you're kind of seeing ahead multiple steps you're a MIDI obviously a constantly shift and change I enjoy I know instantly me up you know I go down a particular route and I think right this is the way and then I realized no this is this isn't working okay delete select tool see ya start again yeah this it's this something akin to buying on paper I guess yeah with ink yeah yeah yeah I remember having to use to work like that because I just didn't have enough RAM and I would have to balance all the time that's how it's a little but it's in it's nice because you're like this is the idea that's like working with four tracks right yeah yeah yeah yeah especially when it comes to Sam Desai I was remember recognizing there's a point it could be a bit of a control freak like me when I was doing Winter Soldier the amount of viktor going off to Russia and weird recording some people hanging out under the 405 and just ridiculous amounts all this weird source material and cuz I was a control freak each time a sound sort of evolved as I need to know how we got here in case I want to go back it's like one evolution and Dom did that crazy singing thing that became the Winter Soldier voice and they went through so a bit like 12 years of the history of drum and bass whilst like it's been going in and out of everyone's AK eyes it was spinning around us all messing with it and there reached a point about I don't know okay well what that one I really like it how did you know what just let go yeah I don't even know how we got here I think this one might have been the one that I stretched and then Victor put in a bit have you still got the chain of yes growing yes just print it bounce it and we'll just call it and then what you know and you just end up with a sort of family of printed sounds as because funny I mean there is the technology where you could potentially trying to unwind everything burn what I love about that sort of sound design aspect at a certain point you do just go record it that's right point it I got this terrible habit I'm now thinking of it as a terrible habit because of you that I don't ever go through my presets or my sense you know I have a sound in my head and I have to create it from scratch and the other day Dave actually made me go through all these presets because we were trying to like find and put a pallet together sir okay oh wow I forgot about oh this is pretty clear and I'd actually made just put them into this folder here you know I'll take the with three and you know what I did I actually went made myself a folder of those presets and because some of them never were never used I just you know they weren't appropriate for that project but you know but good because I hope that thing about I'm not you know know what happens this I have a sound in my head and if I play a preset it blunts the memory of that sound and then the next preset so by the time gone through five presets you can remember what you're trying to do right but this was actually I didn't know what I was going to do yet so it was actually quite an interesting stage of the writing process of going through those old presets and all that that's really interesting if I think about this in a different way this could have come in really handy no there were no Bladerunner well don't worry you know I mean that you know that was a very pure project it's funny that you were talking about like pushing the orchestra on that because the synths that you used are so part of the sonic character and I couldn't imagine it any other way well I kept thinking about it like this we're not gonna we're not gonna copy the Vangelis go we're not gonna do that but Vangelis had an orchestra in my brain right and that was C SAT that was this Orchestra right so why don't we go and use the same Orchestra and just do different things alright and express ourselves differently yeah but just like say well I wanna go and record an air with these players there was the same thing let's drag the C SAT and which the last time I had used was a dark night at air you know that poor thing and been shipped over here put into storage nobody and it was like some weird miracle that I persuaded people to actually drag it in here and worked it was kind of amazing it was almost like oh I know what to do here yes it was that kind of came alive and it lasted exactly five weeks and then it died scored yeah but – maybe like one or two notes right and it it literally died and it was like okay well what that means but done that's it yeah but there was some funny moments actually where it was like on the cusp of about to give it up and it sounds making these very strange sounds those trying play these soaring melodies and it was all very epic and exciting and then it would go what's that that was really interesting and then suddenly that turns into this crazy motorcycle sound which and it's it's it was a fascinating thing where you know in the same way that with with instruments with an orchestra with with musicians you kind of you know you're creating some sort of emotion but with these machines if you don't have the same attitude if it's something that is analog and something which is tender at all and so the cameras will record that actually does think my other third or fourth I've just been very discreet but also recreating that with the zebras was whispers fascinating because then you know something that is so advanced and so digital but the whole objective was to make it sound like it was temperamental and analog and strange and alive I mean I remember trying to delve into some of those patches you created and I had absolutely no idea what was going yeah I'm glad that they're still things that I can do that puzzle you know but I mean hang on a second because I'm the oldest one in the room by a long shot you all started off with the sampling existing alright I think so yeah I mean I did definitely I'm from the Stone Age I was 14 and it was an 8-bit Amiga great computer that was not great so I suppose no I was playing a lot of music before this little cheese wedge shaped piece of with a little thing coming around the back going up an Amiga which in all honesty I think I could redo to point five-second burst but they were always distorted right yes yes we'll have that first ever sampler manboobs 1995's 760 with four megabytes of RAM and it was a birthday present and that was that was the rig was that a MIDI keyboard a tape machine and a sequencer think on some tiny Mac and there and then a quad reverb which went directly into the tape machine and it was just that four megabytes was the entire 16 MIDI tracks and something kind of I still have missed that I'm reinterpreting what he's saying it was a birthday present so he did have like the naughty uncle that was trying to lead him astray into music you know I mean you know my birthday presents would be books on accountancy anything other than become deteriorate anyway you are you were encouraged to be employee encouraged to be a musician I mean you know yeah for sure definitely I mean I had I was playing more guitar than anything in the beginning but I had a I had a keyboard that had a 16 track step sequencer in it that I would just one note by one like I couldn't yeah you know I didn't know how to play it and so I would program it in and yeah I mean ah yeah I pro and you worked how you were close at guitar do you still close at guitar yeah that's accurate what the secret man here well I don't know but but what you encouraged to become a musician this is – not entirely no I mean I I wasn't discouraged either it was it was kind of like accountants is a Avenue you should look at but was there any history of it in your family no okay that's pretty bright then yes but yeah well you did college to be country sister no cautiously my my dad was an engineer is an engineer and my mother's a literature teacher which I think somehow makes sense to what we do I don't know more than Pig father yeah yeah but no no no musicians in the family it was it was but it was cautiously encouraged oh when you say engineer I interpret that to mean recording engineer you mean engineer no I mean yeah yeah fire sprinkler engineer which I almost went into the family business learned how to map fire sprinkler systems I was terrible at it it might be a good thing that you might have inadvertently killed people but your parents not I mean your parents I mean any of your pets well you're not terrified that you were going to go and staff to death and live the life of her I was I was told to study something else first and have a real job and because you ended up with that great guitar teacher that hater so wanted to work with right this this III know that the the guy that hate have fought heroes like swam from Brazil to work with you just got it no but I just turned it around and I said I want to let me try it music first and then I'll maybe learn something yeah don't start with the coming yeah exactly my dad had no he's gay doesn't matter what they add the photos I had photographic my dad had a number one hit in Spain called the our pot man hey so I had the photos of dad circa like nineteen him and Chris choir with seriously psychedelic shirts and you know yeah looking a little the worse for wear so any any complaints about getting involved in the record in Cydia would just result in well the funny thing is this I I knew Henry stared and I had worked for Henry stirred but I didn't know Henry oh yeah and Bob Arum II came in one day with a he said with a track and he said oh you should listen to this and it was your library album that you're done in your bedroom yeah my secret it was supposed a library was a bit of a subterfuge it was not a library yeah I mean I spent two and a half years on it and I just I just thought it was absolutely amazing I remember because I thought you you you really need your way around the orchestra and you basically said to me no I'm not interested in oh yeah well only do drum and bass I've got so much to thank but I had two really weird inverted but because I'd gone to all these poor schools and was like you know suppose get of high school and die eating an Oxford and blah blah blah I'd gone the other way and say look I don't want anyone to know that I can go to a piano and play you know how to classical repertoire and whatnot and I've got so much to thank hands for because he's right because I started doing the sound decide and whatnot and then you well know you know get involved in the orchestra and I was served yeah whatever you know I'm saying enhance that alright so you're just like a drum and bass guy right so you could you you only know about beats and so I said Wow no I said alright well then let's of sitting you down and saying well actually what's what's actually and romina someone I actually owe the the largest apology to but it's my favorite story it's my favorite story because I had basically ignored you being here you made coffee you made coffee and I thought I never I'll see a few more interested in music or if you played a musical and sorum or anything and we were stuck on pirates and you've in your typical polite way said do you mind if when everybody's gone home can I get on to your rig and just try to solve the scene that nobody could solve and the way I remember it it's like yeah we all went home and the next morning we came in and we prayed so every cue that got rejected and then when there was I in desperation somebody said oh yeah I mean you weren't gonna try something and it was the first sword fight in the movie and you played the thing back that I had worked on so hard and couldn't solve etc and we all went that's perfect and it's I think it's the only time on on any movie or whatever I ever saw a queue just you know it was just everybody was going yeah of course that is it perfect and I do remember what I said to you that I remember I said you will never make me another yeah but it was like I mean it really it really was you know because you you you were using the same material the same tunes everything everybody had access to written at five o'clock in the morning in my cowshed or something I couldn't nobody could make it working you just took the same material and you just and I it wasn't even about the musicianship so much I knew story since like there's a film composer sitting right there making coffee what a waste of time this guy this guy no son because what you what you did was you made Gore's movie look as if it had been as if it had been shot to that music as if the scene had always been designed to that piece of music you made you made her scene better you made go look better yeah you know make me another cup of coffee everything your coffee wasn't that good exactly I was a bit of miss casting that play Jacob I always had high hopes but he's disappointed me so far but I'm sorry well yeah I've got you think I just think I just think the history is interesting the history of like I mean you you know you all had balls of steel to not become doctors and accountants and whatever and and actually no you were the funniest one tutor do you know how you know my bed story mm-hmm here my pen sorry I'm in my flat in London and I'm watching this movie that shall remain nameless and I detested it I was – testing every second of the story because I thought was pretentious and awful but I loved the music totally loved music so I watched the whole thing through and gets the end and it says Benjamin Ball fish oh not said so and I was so driven by this that I looked I looked him up on the internet and I thought I found his email at or so I sent him like some stupid email trick hey I just watched your movie I just really liked the music and then weeks or whatever go by never hear from him right and richard harvey pops by and I don't know we're talking about something he says I'm having lunch with Benjamin Bathurst tomorrow okay yeah I wrote him this email thing I really loved his music but he ever answered me well I suppose what do you answer do you hear somebody says I love your music he go what yeah well thank you or whatever and Melissa from that lunch I got back to my flat and there was an email there saying dear mr. Zimmer you probably mean the composer Benjamin ball fish I'm the lawyer bench never yeah and you know hey you should see hands he quite likes you and then you send me the email and I was like wow that's quite a story yeah but if the coincidence of literally after all those weeks getting that email for a and and what what a sweet man I don't know how I don't know how common it's not presumably it's not an enormous Lee common day right so that's what I thought I guess not but yeah there is some he's kind of my age too yeah he's a medical orientation oh and if he thought you don't MIT moment if you sort of went to Penn said well maybe I could serious composers on to me so I'm together a little something on the gallows if he's into I remember and then and then we I think we met at air came to Sherlock session where you had actually ironically about a hundred cellos in the room doing some crazy stuff and me crazy stuff and a bad Joe yeah you gotta be versatile yeah I don't look it's great you know it's like destroying pianos banjos accordions something new you know and then the studio sitting there going this is our big Christmas release accordions there yeah it's like and bad just it's like no and I did that thing we put it in front of an audience and the audience really got it you know and and you have and that's why you know that's why the samples do save you in a funny way because he can go and mock something up and put it in front of an audience and you don't have to speak because music is indefensible mm-hmm I can't talk the most brilliant producer I can't talk them into loving the piece of music let me explain why your reaction of not liking this is wrong and once I finish this sentence it doesn't but you know it's not just that audiences I mean who knows what directors were like in the 40s and 50s and whatnot but I remember having this arguing Matthew Bourne II so I'll just bang it though because we're running out times just like a few ideas and one I'll just bang out on the piano I'll get it I said Matthew and I've been rude but because it's a bit of an Adagio him here's my prediction I'll bang it out on the piano just play it and just like send it to me on the iPhone so here's what here's my prediction you're gonna go it sounds a bit like guy playing the piano so no I won't do that like I've never done so why don't you can you just be patient like six hours literally just sit and then also do this I don't know I just do it just gonna rock it fine so senator is that just you on the piano he loves music he's it really but my point being I'm not taking the piss out Matthew I mean there is a big difference yeah if you've got some of those so and you program and even if you've only got a few hours the difference seen that going and and just the nature of this is you know the decay of a piano and whatnot there's no because you're gonna get yeah it's so I'm missing the bigness and the Cystic what because it's someone planning camera and so it really does help director however much to exercise god I promise you I've got so much imagination let me fill in all the holes yeah but that that's why I keep thinking you know that there's the disconnect with musicians it's just as great where they're going oh I just need to get a string library right well they're all sound different because they're all in its individual musicians with their individual instruments making a sound that I happen to like all right as or might work for this project yeah it may be not that way yeah no no it's like we had to spend I heard the thing which were so not Ben's fault I was in London I'd written a thing and asked him to record it with a violinist and you picked the wrong bylaw yes for yes casting really good violinist and I heard this piece I went oh my god it's this is a disaster the notes are wrong everything is wrong it's and then I went hang on do you not you know do you know any other players and you bet your friend pen pal right who was on the road he was literally in his car with his iPhone recording this thing with yes no I don't know that it came back to me it was the same notes but it was yeah I was I wasn't insane but if it's a you know the performance the players of the instrument and so it doesn't matter it was recorded on an iPhone or nah it was a diamond yeah you 67 assist all that stuff it's it's you know cast your players yeah yeah and that that makes the whole difference no so this is this business of temp as well I mean the ideal of maybe we can work without temp there was the you know had that experience with that move the cure for wellness with gore where was this idea of no temp but that means you have to be in my cutting rooms for eight months whilst we cut and generate temp as we go I don't feel so bad for you because that was a film school it totally was it was it was actually the most extraordinary experience that but just in terms of without actually having samples which were performances that whole process would have been impossible because there was so many times where they were you know we talked and talked about concepts and that story but without I should be able to show it and and examine it with sound it was you know all the words did you did you play I mean when you when you because he had your deadlines are pretty insane right sometimes yeah sometimes yeah do you do what Henry doesn't plan on the piano and hope for the best don't you know sometimes I played myself and sort of fix it in a computer and at least try to make it sound like what it could be like it's yeah I don't try the piano no actually I remember working on this one she just forever on the piano I mean literally I think two weeks I was a simple and I remember floating up Krishna and saying hey I think I got an idea can I just play it to you over the phone and playing it and him going oh that's really great and then a couple of months later he said whatever happened to that tune you played me over the phone I never recorded it because it was enough to play it over the phone and go I'm going yeah that's do you know okay yeah I've done that now now I need to go deal with all the other stuff and I had to actually sort of dig around in my brain and find it do you sing into your iPhone no case and they use encounter to iPhone rhythms I'll do here into the phone and occasionally I do it all the time yeah yeah it's always as if I wish my words dude when you're driving it's like the most dangerous thing in the world and then there's always a bit if you're not concentrating so you hit the stop part then the wind dog comes up and then there's like delete to get rid of the meaningless default new recording somewhere in there you can go oh I think I just oh oh now what was oh yes yes and then I'm randomly you know everyone go so you can undo anything on that for as long as you shakers because that's what happens to me that's why not do it anymore I start listening back to it and like I hear my oh yeah so no I don't do that well but I'm not trying to do one upmanship here and Cubase vs. logic but I've given that stupid something in Cubase it doesn't need to be the retros yes that's saved me so many times you can it depends on can you do exactly that logic is no yeah that's quite good I tell you what you get in logic if the thing has been sitting there for a long time you get 63 notes good it's a sort of a piece which should it be suitably unpacked and figured out then better you'd be better off just dying yeah for this guy's I use logic when it was still Sealab in the 90s yes rotator and I just remembered this sort of resize how many tracks it was but it was vertical yeah but then there was this weird journey for me towards Cubase via digital performer because the deep you had this thing where you could flexibly record with no click and then add click later which I had no idea how to do logic I know there's a way yeah but I see that's the only reason that's why I'm worried about the Cubase I do that all the time I don't go edit click it's run play in and then it has to follow the performance but if there's somehow they've nailed that oh and the most insane a simple idea that you were verse polarity instead of the thing that static of the barlines thing the celica the other notes and the violence you can move and and unlike this before me I'm geeking out please do and that's that I'm in but it is quite because I do a zero click track that's all and then you somehow gotta figure out it's it's horrible either how to actually show an orchestra where this frame is but yeah Cubase somehow I don't know it's funny I started on the bass and then travel and show them what's that yeah it moves that that's gone right whatever that was that's gone and here's the rig right right so that's you know I got Trevor to thank for that well and they asked Trevor because Trevor didn't know I would I would insist that we would record to click right you know and he asked him you know he would go why am i recording to this you know going to click as your everything will be and you know whatever we do later on we can find our way back the clicker sir especially if you've got like a disparate thing that with collaborations going what know if you don't have a click it's a bit like ooh we've loved our religion right there's no god but he was a record guy these are tastes you you wouldn't even know about you're much too young because I remember working with Java in the 90s and him saying I could I remember him being on the phone what do you mean where's that stuff in the Swedish guys mm-hm why isn't it on to what do you mean no click yeah I believe in the click but you know the click is your friend see we can we can we can go make anything work if we as long as you know it's the common it's the common link to us all in a funny that way yeah yeah yeah don't even that timestamp thing you know it's like there's no interpretive way of going with clicks you know it's either in or it's out you know you're in time or you're not in time it's true but there is something strangely romantic and nice when orchestra naturally gets what you're trying to say like with a line like the sort of the horizontal idea and it's sort of drifts but it's telling a story and then in retrospect you then move it backwards so it does line up no it's something it's a kind of weird thing where I don't know I've never actually understood how musicians pull that off where they can play musically with one ear covered so they can't really hear the tuning and this is hitting your eardrum yeah but they're still playing expressively and it's kind of amazing it's I've always you know it's definitely yeah are you sure you don't that's the other thing mr. soft with samples any sample you have it what you're doing this at that when you buy a new sample you have to learn it it's because the attack on strength of strings it's going to be slow and you know if you play you really actually what look at it you are going to be behind and then you figure out you instinctively figure out what that latency is and you you start to be in time so embarrassing I don't know if you guys from this but whenever I play something into a sequencer no matter what it's always a little bit ahead in other words if it were lay you'd be twice as cool that's of my TT score early reader you wanna be about 60 milliseconds off it and then right you've reached a Jedi level of which I'm certainly not a tire dhalsim here I'm always ahead of the beat it's that muscle memory of okay I know I have to shift this this way before by quantizing earth but then you sit in a room with a drummer or a bass player and they're absolutely there others just forget about it it's something obey often base is a little bit lazy in a really nice way and it's always a bit disappointing people quantize it and move it back in oh no that was what was making it sound slightly cooler than air just that's why you you know that's why you cast your music yes exactly for their feel yeah you know and very often and this is I I want to see if you guys disagree I think it's about volume as well cool people don't play loud no they don't sound like they're trying they're gone they don't go ping they play quietly and there's a richness to the cell that's tone you know absolutely and you know if somebody told me this recently that like the really big John Williams bit some really exciting but he never goes to I get double therefore it's don't sound the best that's given up Wow well I guess dinner yeah ping yeah you know so but it's it's people can make huge volume mmm through intensity right so true so intention exactly are the intention translates into the instrument and there's that thing that happens in an orchestra where the intention is fortissimo but everyone is maybe sort of Forte but they're listening to each other kind of take the togetherness about that it's becomes a collective thing where the oak should have become one instrument and it rarely happens when everyone is just going completely nuts yeah and and it's just like okay play as loud as you can because then it just becomes this kind of aggressive forced soundness of the fullness you know he sort of envelops you and you can't help but you know just be overwhelmed when it when it isn't necessarily everyone playing as that especially to be totally geeky and totally pretentious in Marla second there's this one bar you know your mulleted footnotes for every bar how are you should perform it and it says notes of the conductor you need to hold this part or the orchestra has reached the you know that the highest crescendo they can possibly reach so carry on conducted and the choir hasn't come in for another 20 minutes or so so this bar comes and it gets louder and he has the choir stand up they don't do anything that's a good fish I remember my uncle telling me he did a live recording and Nigel Kennedy playing space-filling violin concerto and he said it was the weirdest thing cuz when they recorded it live the balance between him and the rest the Hulkster was absolutely perfect and then it was one of those things where they were doing a sort of live makes no releasing on CD later and when they just listened to it yeah monitoring us just like to D be short that's so weird cuz when we were monitoring it and we had the T and it said well you know why cuz he was seeing on yes now you're not seeing him you're missing and he said I'd be he said over the years I've been a bit geeky and I figured out it's about 2 and 1/2 DB really you don't see the soloist that's really good to know it's about two and a half because because my big lesson is that you know doing Orchestra chorus and I'm looking at the orchestra and there's passion in their faces and there's all that stuff going on I think it's an amazing take and three days later I'm listening you pull it a really boring yeah so now what I do is when we record Orchestra I forced myself not to look at them right you know didn't literally have my head down and just listen yeah I'm just to take but by that because I mean even as a kid you know my mom took me to see a fight blender play and I remember him playing that last note and holding a finger on the note and I'm hearing it and then I'm still hearing it and then he took my finger off and the note disappeared and then she buying you know I loved it and she buying me the record and the last note just goes plunk because right we have the series very only Ramin will understand this one we have a great German expression just alga HeartMate mm-hmm which is very hard to translate but it basically means the the eye is a participant in Venice right exactly that is the pose at the point I move you're missing the tongue quite that so in fact was perfectly legit for the clients to stand up I'm not actually doing this absolutely actually just the whole point about the stuff we do is we are we're not prefer not giving you a performance we're giving you a recording is a very it's a very different thing it is and so look you know this better than anywhere you can see you're actually a professional conductor you know and and you know I see you like you know all that stuff's going on and it looks fantastic but I'm not always sure if it actually sounds fun well thankfully don't make any sound as a conductor but no but but it it's actually the interesting thing I mean I was very lucky it's been most much when he's doing that and the process of rehearsing is almost kind of getting the the sort of dental hygiene in place where you know the basics are there so that then you can perform and you almost don't want to necessarily even discuss dynamics and and you know you just you're gonna do it and and you should have leave this sort of 10% for when you you're so involved in this in the score and in what look about is trying to put across that you you know that's this amazing sort of back and forth an exchange of energy between the conductor and the orchestra where you galvanize each other and when it's a really great Orchestra they've played together all the time you actually don't need to do very much it's just it's a sort of you sort of facility this synchronicity so that they become an you know a one instrument and then you cannot get out of the way and let them perform and occasionally energize an occasional but there is this thing where you know if I could compose like Marla or Beethoven to wear this it was about revolutionising the orchestra and about doing something which never been done before but it is you you're right it can look very strange and it's because most of the work is done in rehearsal and it's about that's when the discussions when the interpretation and the philosophy takes place and then there's that extra 10% where you take the audience on that ride with you and whenever I make a recording it's always really important for me to don't try and capture that sort of newness and freshness so that it doesn't feel like it's just something that's been constructed no I mean we've been and I had and Pharrell I knew we had this experience with Herbie Hancock right oh well yeah we thought a further but we all thought it was a really good idea to get Herbie Hancock in to come and play the piano right so we've found Herbie and we told him what it was about and all the sudden we kind of really excited and he said so when is this and we said well tomorrow because you guys but no he came and he made one stipulation that it would be his piano you know okay so we got his piano yes its Fazioli and then been spend two hours three hours I don't know how long going through all the written notes be like off the whole school he played all of it you know everything is as written on the page and then he said well okay now just do your thing and so what he did was he prayed far less than was written right hmm but he knew it all and every note he played was important and was meaningful yes because what you're talking about there's this preparation at hand you know to really understand what the notes why the notes were there what the piece of music was about and then to have a great musician know what you were trying to say and say it in his way it was because I I thought is he me being an idiot I thought he was going to play more and he did exactly opposite that's right it was really everything yeah and and every note he played was touching and yeah it's Oh Priya and it really brought like why he wanted his instrument because he started creating these voicings which was actually quite simple very open voicings but he knew that with this Fazioli there was a resonance and they're kind of there was a motion to be had from that particular combination of sounds with that particular piano and I was moved to tears during the session wait we all went yeah and I'm a pretty you know be I'm pretty cynical it really was it was like for me it was a lesson of why this man is an artist as opposed to but you know everybody can say he's a great pianist sure but it went so beyond list and hidden fingers was like that across the board there were the orchestra – there was all about intention and story and there was no sort of musical musician there yeah there was this incredible it wasn't our idea was very else idea he said you know well this what movie really is about women and African American women etcetera and just like a Julie mentioned can't we have more of those in the orchestra and if so we saw a route to go and find all these players that are don't normally play session so when they started to play you you know how you can disassociate yourself from the from the notes and actually just hear the sound you know and I was listening to the sound and the sound was crisper and more beautiful and more purposeful and anything had ever heard in my in an orchestra here you know and it was exactly the same room with the same mics and Alan you know it was different it was absolutely different it was and you know to search it was extraordinary well there was there was intention that went beyond okay we have to pay these notes in time they knew why they were play everybody knew why they were playing those knows they say about playing for themselves yeah you know it was it was death that music had become their music and and and but but it did something to the actual it I don't know it did something to the instruments I don't know what I did but it there's a clarity and a brightness around a brittleness of brightness that no EQ can give you that's true yeah yeah it was really remarkable so yeah so yeah cast your players right you know it's it's that there's this reason for what you know there's a reason for why you want to go and record there with this Orchestra or with these players whatever you know it's not the strings they are individuals and just you know the more you can capture that way ahead another thing that's I found experimenting with is this idea of should you have all the orchestra in the room at the same time playing at the same time which hen's way years ago well that's it but if you're writing some insane brass writing for example and the strings are doing some scurrying stuff to support the buzz the strings aren't going to be quite as motivated if they're not being obliterated but then you'll find stuff yeah yeah I'm saying yeah it gives you more control in the mix I think it depends you know if you had done whatever the string arrangements one played run it you'll see you know you don't even say that that but the I just did Jumanji in a style that sort of disappeared in the mid 90s that kind of thing you you'd been saying not to do it apart from that all the percussion you've been saying on for tuning for samples exactly because it's so old school it really is it's it's like the opposite of what hands are saying about you know half as sometimes you're doing things which are deliberately going completely outside and what a traditional orchestra does the school like that it's doing exactly what a symphony orchestra know if you don't have them all in the room per se like that you're asking for it's an i trouble it's an answer in a way that's not true you know when you're putting the mighty jigsaw together for something like Dark Knight well it's a it's a different style yeah it's a complete both styles brilliant Liam yeah in the same way you'd be insane to put them all in the room for a dark night you know I mean that would be not dreaming yeah you've now can't build your perfect jigsaw no Andy I mean I did on boss baby you know Steve Basar and I got Conrad pope in beautiful Orchestrator and I said okay Conrad you're gonna have one task I'm gonna give you the tiniest amount of notes and I'm gonna give you three months to go and make this beautiful thing for the orchestra there's going to be one cue were you only responsible for one cue and it was one of those which you know I wanted it to have a sense of the old orchestra and everybody playing together and literally even the first you know the first run-through with nobody wearing headphones and just Conrad conducting and well it was completely magical it was completely that and you completely understood why we had to have music in the world two years it was one of those sort of things you know and it was very efficient very fast you know and and you know look it wasn't just a treat working with him as well you know it's like and and he demoed it a lot by the way it was oh it was all locked up before and it didn't it didn't change the notes never changed you know but when when they all played it it's that thing he said with the king you know everybody took that breath and then exhale was extraordinary yeah it also sounded but the brass easy a bit less bright hmm because I mean they're literally in the room it's like wait way more people and it's that thing of musicians inspiring each other yeah there's so much you can do with a pre-recorded in one in one ear well depending again depending on the style of what it is but but yeah I suppose my question was do you think it's possible to inspire musicians in the same way as having everyone in the room when they're not in the room through pre-record have you ever do that never no no I mean it says the jigsaw thing works precisely because they don't they don't necessarily need to know how the city is being built ways if you have if you have a more traditional symphonic style you absolutely need to know how city's being put and you're hearing it right around well you see I have a problem with with that theory which all of you have purchased you make the orchestra into one I don't think you do that at all by having everybody in the room I think what you do is you get to sum total of every individuals expression yes as opposed to doing what I like doing depending on what you know what the thing is where you say okay now it's just the brass analogous the ostinatos whatever you know this thing we were talking about that is about singularly my vision and I want everybody to play the way I would play it if I could play it so that's when it becomes one and it's it's assertive style you know and and it's it excludes the it excludes the individuality of all the players you know it's it's very precise and then you know and then we go and make it worse because we go in to produce and we can go absolutely shift the timing and lock it so that that because it's the same as you playing it on the piano as an individual you know you just make the whole Orchestra into your fingers all right it's the authoritarian very CEO sorry – yeah absolutely it's the dictator so you're allowed to play but you must have thoughts of your own feelings that works so precisely you know I mean you know I mean Ramin correct me if I'm wrong because you were there I mean what we were trying to do in a funny way we were trying to create a dystopian cold world that was very very different from from from you know the Jolly emotional worlds that you know you know it was it was quite the opposite you know

25 thoughts on “The Hans Zimmer Composer Round Table

  1. *Rick Beato* sent me here…and, only 20-minutes into the round table, I am loving this and now subscribed…this is so amazing!!! 💗💗💗

  2. Good discussion. Would be great to spend time with someone like Han’s immersed in his process. The guy would take you right out of your comfort zone.

  3. I love almost all of these composers' work, but this is quite unwatchable. All of them just praising each others work and maestro Zimmer loving his own voice. Not much actual content or information. But yea, I should drink more wine.

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