The Federalist Papers Explained: Authors, Hamilton, Important Quotes, Summary (2000)



Robert Stigliano editor introducer of the latest edition of the Federalists what is it it's a collection of newspaper articles written during the ratification campaign for the Constitution in 1787 and first part of 1788 the the essays were put together into two bound volumes and there in fact we were used during the ratification cannot campaign in New York they were published in New York newspapers then they were sent down to Virginia to be of use in the Virginia ratification campaign as well so they had the extensive influence and they were they were reproduced in newspapers in other states as well newspaper articles newspaper are in what newspaper in in for our four New York City newspapers and I could adjust that to have to have to learn what to remind myself of the independent was well it was one but the other know the newspapers themselves are not so important is the fact that they would give it extensive coverage and repeated in in other newspapers within the city of New York and 85 85 of them in all who wrote them Alexander Hamilton first of all second James Madison and third John Jay and I named in descending order of the number of articles that each wrote how did they decide that those three men would write them and were there any others that you know might have written some of these yeah well Hamilton organized the project he saw that the Constitution when I came out of convention was going to have tough sledding in New York and the anti-federalists that is those opposed to ratification were already publishing in the newspapers and so he decided to organize a series of our articles he recruited his friend John J and then he tried to get another friend of his governor Morris in the trust he first and not not known to to America's lead even too many students of American politics today but Jay declined the invitation then he went to change matter Edison and Madison decreed so the three of them formed a collaboration they assign the the numbers more or less according to their interest and also to the time that they had available when you view in your introduction you go into some detail about who actually wrote what when they call them papers the Jimmy Carr calls the papers sometimes then they call them articles or essays is there a dispute in history on who wrote what article a great dispute I didn't intend or I didn't think that I was gonna get myself deeply involved in it but it almost consumed why my introduction and there's a deeper meaning to the our deeper issue to the dispute that they had because the the articles were written anonymously at the time and there was a sort of an agreement say between the two main authors Hamilton and Madison that they would not disclose which one of them wrote which are articles without the consent of the of the other and so far as I know this consent was never solved by either one know given so how many did Alexander Hamilton right well he said he wrote 63 Madison and Madison said that he wrote 51 J it is agreed wrote five of them Madison wrote to arrest us yeah I believe 29 of the articles by Madison's count out of the 80 85 and something like 29 think this comes out to 17 by Hamilton's there are also three Arctic articles which were jointly written according to Hamilton almost entirely written occupied by Madison according to Madison so there's disagreement with respect to these three cold written articles in the analysis field and a dispute over a fair number of the others that is 512 what I believe you know 414 think it comes to 14 those are in dispute and then three more of the charity written ones are the original articles on file anywhere I mean the actual would they write in longhand I suspect they only know their drafts yeah no they're the the drafts never survived and that would have helped their this we could have had recourse to their gesture and we could have seen for sure which of them rose well which articles Jay kept copies of his drafts and so there was never any dispute as to which numbers Jay wrote are they on file somewhere so I'm pretty sure that Jays are at the Columbia University Archives now how did you get involved in doing this undergraduate course for a number of years I use the mods library edition of The Federalist initially because of my regard for the filament library these if there's a quality of its live and when my book wore out I would get another of martin library a copy and then when that wore out all I'm um I'm on my third one this is the third one now it's almost in tatters and I said something had to be done all right like the bars have to like that the vod's Library Edition knows I knew what everything was in the editions I simply wrote a letter to Mars library say it's a shame for you not not to keep this book up to date that is the the introduction to the edition was written in 1937 pretty pretty far danger than the number of ways and also the Constitution reproduced in the back of the book only went through the 21st amendment and so I suggested that they are they ought to keep this this book accurate and I said if you want me to do it I'll be interested in considering it and there are there we went along before I forget it I want to ask you about the 27th amendment ya know law varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives shall take effect until an election of Representatives shall have intervened ratified May 7 1992 but it was submitted when it was submitted along with the other of the others that is along with the bell of the Bill of Rights the original Bill of Rights and that was one of the two articles of the Bill of Rights which was not ratified at the time and unbeknownst to many people most people they slowly revived and we're finally ratified by the requires via number of states recorders other states in 1992 and it just kind of slipped in there no one paid any attention no the very little attention was paid to it I wasn't aware of into his practically ratified well the point of it is that no law barring the compensation for the services of Senators and Representatives shall take effect until an election of the representatives which means that you can't vote yourself a pay raise exactly the reason I bring that up is because throughout this book if there's one thing you read about constantly is money money and interests and and in the Federalist paper this is a huge book of 618 pages how could they be so consumed back then with what people would do with money ah because they believed that interest was an important motive of human conduct and had to be taken into account that is how to be restrained some respect props had to allow to flow the flow ambition and interest were the two engines or two great engines of healing conduct of the famous so they were sensitive and some probably for my remembrance that the most famous saying that came out of the Federalist Papers is on page 331 you can tell me if there's another one but the thing that is confusing though its Federalist 51 and it's Madison and you put in parentheses or Hamilton and I haven't wait for years thought that the following words were written by James Madison if men were angels no government would be necessary and if angels were to govern men the evangels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary who do you think wrote that oh my my earlier inclination as before I got into the other work on this addition to the Federalist was Hamilton against most people in the profession in fact that was a motive I suppose in getting into the whole question of disputed our authorship it had been a dispute between Hamilton and Madison Hamilton dead at the time and therefore follows those two who wrote numbers and that dispute from about the end of the 19th century down to the 1940s was resolved by saying Hamilton or Madison after all the disputed numbers and that compromise was suggested by Henry Cabot Lodge in addition of his that was published in the 1880s which Henry Cabot Lodge oh that's the same the famous Henry Cabot Lodge that is the center of the senator from Massachusetts the great opponent to uh President Wilson's Versailles Treaty and a scholar himself now the Henry Cabot Lodge it ran with Richard Nixon 61 large was his grandson oh it could it could have been his son why was why was Henry Cabot Lodge such an authority on the Federalist Papers because he was the scholar and he was the the editor of the North American reader review and he was an authority on Alexander Hamilton he R he wrote a biography of Hamilton wrote a biography of wash Washington wrote a great deal about about the founding and because his own ancestors were prominent at the founding as well I think that yeah Cabot who was an early federal fed list was is there a direct interest you mentioned earlier that you teach the Federalist Papers where at Boston College did the students think it's hard stuff hot stuff ha tough stuff I tell you the beginning I said like this has got to be tough stuff now there's gonna be tough stuff over but we we got to read the papers themselves I don't want you to read about the papers that is I want you to get you to get your understanding yourselves and through our discussions in class moreover we're gonna spend between 6 & 7 weeks on this stuff and you may get tired of it part way through but I think you'll find when we come out or when we come out of it that you've learned a great great deal and I'm told by students out was indeed that is so nearly all of them not all now I will admit to having some problem that various times reading this and understanding and I'm just gonna read one paragraph for someone oh and our audiences never ever read the Federalist Papers and have no idea this has just picked at random one of those paragraphs I wasn't sure what I was reading and I and as you will I'm sure tell us that's not all like this but this is on page 433 of this edition attempts I may make sure it's Federalist 67 and that's Hamilton okay attempts extravagant as these to disfigure or rather to metamorphose the object render it necessary to take an accurate view of its real nature and form : in order to ascertain its true aspect and genuine appearance to unmask the disk ingenuity and to expose the fallacy of the counterfeit resemblances which have been so insidious Lee as well as industriously propagated love you can find that or not but I want to ask you what the heck that meant what the heck does it mean students ever put it to you that way oh they do on another case it's not not that one is better fact I thought you were going to read a complicated sentence from the famous offenses 51 but where does that appear this was faith this is fame federal 51 and now I'm sorry it's not either it's 67 on page 4 30 but you know they're really they answer their question I want to ask is how wide was is the language so sometimes so hard to understand well was written in late 18th century prose which is quite different from our prop rose they did not write down to their audience there is an interesting book called with respect I think I think it's the featherless without tears there anyway it's it's a modest version of the fetters following that the original argument quite well but modern prose it loses something of the original and yet it makes its argument much more comprehensible to the readers because it does not use that rather convoluted century-style how old was James Madison when he wrote his Federalist Papers he was 36 at least when he began he became 37 towards the how old was Alexander Hamilton well depending on whose records you accept probably he was 30 he may have been 32 32 and how old was John Jack he was just over 40 I believe 41 very young men there are numbers in here of how many people were around in those days let's go back and create for us the atmosphere in which they wrote these papers when did they conclude the convention in Philadelphia the convention finished on September 17th the Constitution the 1787 1787 the Constitution was sent to Congress via because they agreed to comply with the terms of the old Constitution the Articles of Confederation submitted to Congress with the request that Congress submitted to the States with the request that the states call conventions of the people to consider it for a ratification and that was done so it was sent out to the states about the end towards the end of September and when were these papers first run the first one was was written probably in the early part of October Hamilton had to go up go up to Albany there to haut to conduct court he was a lawyer made his living from the law then the according to report he wrote the first paper on his way down the Hudson River on the schooner whether that is true or not we don't know but it makes it makes it my story so it began then and the last group of papers was actually published in a volume or they appeared in the news in this papers the last eight papers published and at the end of May and then they were prettier than the newspapers going into July and John J at the time forty-one years old what was his had he been to the convention himself no the Federalist opponents had to let Hamilton go to the carrot that is the opponents in the New York legislature so they let hell Hamilton go to the convention they surrounded Hamilton with two anti-federalist which means that Hamilton would have no voice in as much of the arc would have a single vote the Fed lists try to get Jay appointed as a delicate as well but he was blocked what was he doing at the time he was the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs he was a he is equal to the America's Secretary of State today secretary for Foreign Affairs was this formal title and he did that for several years and James Madison at the time what was he doing Madison was a member of the Continental Congress Hamilton had been a member of the Continental Congress I think I think at this time also Hamilton was the number of the of the Continental Congress the institution was dying it was moribund the country was waiting to see what would happen with the new constitution where was it based New York so if he can relate it to the day let's say they had a commission on Social Security they had had the meetings they were over and then members basically of the Commission go out and write newspaper articles to sell the idea mm-hmm that's right and did it go on for continuous weeks one it was there more than one a week but they were published oh yes there were two of me two or three a week published in the newspapers I counted and maybe you can help me on this one I can the longest one in here according to pages is 15 pages long yeah that was the end towards the end yeah yeah Thea that's right Hamilton was trying to bring the thing to an end at this time because the New York ratifying convention had already been been elected by the people of New York and it was – a beginner's deliberations in a couple of weeks so you find the papers lengthening at this time it was fellows 83 and it was all about trial by jury yes was how big an issue was that during this discussion or big not doubt in the Constitutional Convention a big issue raised by the the anti-federalists there's a precious right of the people is not being guaranteed trial by jury in criminal Caracara cases was provided for but not not in civil cases it was a problem here under the under the common law or trying to develop a uniform rule that a rule that was applied to all states and therefore nothing was done and yet the criticism was so strong that the provision was made for civil jury trial in the in a bill of rights that was one of the complaints what was a federalist question because the anti-federalists claimed that they were the real fed list we are the ones standing by the Articles of Confederation our Federal Constitution and you have stolen a name fretless from us there's some truth in that and yet the Fed lasar meant was that they had been in favor of strengthening the Articles of Confederation getting a stronger federal government and therefore they were they was a real Fed 'less helmeted also had a special definition of a federalist which good a person who could support really a consolidated government that is a unitary national government so long as the states existed in some subordinate role within it his was a a special definition of federalism did these papers from what you can tell have any impact on this body politic back in 1787 88 hard to say some some commentators say no some say yes this certainly had an impact on those who are elected to the ratifying conventions especially in New York in this end in Virginia because they provided arguments to the delegates supporting ratification and also they stated arguments that had to be not by the opponents to the Constitution so that there was part of a large dialogue being carried out in these two states it also elsewhere because they were reproduced in are in other states as well at the same time at the same time that's right and what were they published in other states in newspapers and how big was the population of the United States during this time about three million I know one thing it popped up in one of the papers in here was that at the time Great Britain only had eight million people is that be about right there's also a lot of discussion in here and a lot of reference to the government of Great Britain mm-hmm why bobeat not you to make comparisons with Great Britain because the comparisons would be meaningful to the people and also these comparisons could be made to the favor of the Constitution that is feather 69 Publius compares the powers of the proposed American executive with the powers of the British king if they show the British king will be hereditary this office will be elected for four years the British King can make treaties by himself this office it was paid treaties with the consent of the Senate so on down the line so beta made a nice basis of a counter counter argument at the time there wasn't Great Britain the it was at the enemy Great Britain was the had been the enemy it was still unpopular the minds of a number of people which did not contribute to Hamilton's popular popularity particularly because Hamilton was a great admirer of the British constitution he said it was the the best Constitution that the world has seen now again you have 85 of these and three men that wrote them and John Jay only wrote five why did he write two three four and two three four and five and then he jumped like 68 or something but why why did they assign him the first couple well he and him he and Hamilton started off the writing that fee that was it and the initial plan was to write twenty twenty-five five numbers that that quickly changed but it may have been that Jay said all right I'll take up the assignment after you write the introductory one and then you come back in and in the meantime we'll try to find somebody else to join us goof-goof de morris as i mentioned here early had turned him down and then they got madison probably well that's it agreed about the middle of November to join him in his first number was on number 10 so Jay wrote for after Hamilton's introduction and then Hamilton carrion came in with 303 more and then Madison joined them you mentioned about the modern library and if you go to the back of the book the modern library editorial board and when I hold it up here eventually we get a shot of who they are they're almost everybody on there is immediately recognizable it starts with Maya Angelou at the top and then here's Daniel Boorstin and go down the list of Christopher Cerf I assume Bennett Cerf son shelby foote stephen jay gould ron chernow Vartan Gregorian Charles Johnson Jon Krakauer edmund morris you see Joyce Carol Oates Arthur's lazing her salman rushdie gore Vidal william Styron others do you know those folks in that do you do you deal with them when you went to them to suggest that you do another version of this no I simply dealt with the the modern library editor now I assume that he dealt with I saw some of them so how do they how did they pick you in the end what is it that you've done that they say this is a guy we can trust well I I've written written on questions dealing with the Americans our founding published articles on the War Powers under the Constitution the original understanding of the War Powers I've got so I have an interest they are and I I have taught the subject what I've written on other subjects as well in in American politics in government and Isis I told them what it is what it was I wanted to do they took it good time they got back and said fine when did you start I started doing the reading oh I'd say up to over a year ago then I was interrupted by various things and actually finished up this past summer and did you change anything and in the actual articles themselves well yes and no I I made about a thousand changes from the early of Maude's Library Edition you see thee the articles originally published in the newspapers and then as they were being published in newspapers Hamilton collected them and published them in book form both the newspapers and the original book had a number of my a minor errors in it it was a rush job in 1802 Hamilton supervised a new edition of the other fellows and that new edition provided perhaps 500 US or so very small changes in current in Corrections in the total number and then and 1818 yeah Oh Hamilton supervise those changes 1880 was killed by the way when what for year 1804 in 1818 Madison Madison provided additional changes for the numbers that he said that he had written and what I did is I took the original newspaper revisions put those in but in the 1800 and to Edition revisions and then Madison's revisions in 1818 did it changed the meaning at all no it improves the text I thought in a number of very small ways or its selection may be a dropping of a word for example fellows 34 it always had quite seemed right to me that Hamilton should say that under the Republic wrong reached the heights of utmost perfection there's an overstatement there but in going through the revisions I find that Hamilton's final determination was that under the republic wrote rome reached via the the height of perfection could you tell the difference in the writing between the three men oh I try try they can't have too much confidence when friends of theirs had trouble determining who wrote which once that is before they were identified Washington wrote a friend even though he do how much did well well because the I wanted it is a Tuesday to comp Washington wrote asking can you tell me who the authors of the individual numbers are Donnan Williams very Virginia they wrote people said hey we know James Madison he's really the author of these Jefferson's who knew our Madison well said you I know that you wrote most of them that being said I have certain indications of writing Madison I would Madison right in more detail perhaps there's more digression in Madison perhaps he makes sure that the point is is completely made and understood where how Hamilton tends to milk more direct Madison is is more theoretical he or more often starts with a theoretical statement and then works his way down to the practical situation feathers number 10 is a final example of that where Hamilton starts with the problem and he may generalize from the problem but he charity starts with the particular what if I made my sense one other change Hamilton puts more stress upon an ambition as a human motive than does Madison's they both talk about ambition as well as interest I draw a conclusion from this and that is for Madison the human problem that is living at peace is more within reach of solution if you can satisfy all interest for Hamilton that the human problem is insoluble because UV you may have plenty but the Thea but there'll be reset Vince there be ambitions and he had a lot of us in his own life he himself had kind of a noble average but still a lot of ambition see right now when you you Boston College for how many years thirty years and this is my final year and and how long have you talked to Federalists as they complete that is a complete work that is in a course or often along for about close to thirty years since I came to Boston College I always let my courses go out into the meadow after I taught them perhaps two perhaps three years there not a fresh enough fat and fatten up before I take begin to make sure I I don't become bored with them and I've done that but the course in which I include the father feathers always my credo political scientist always give a few endless papers and I had done that before but never had I gone through the book carefully reading the papers with the students and I came to the conclusion that the only way for undergrad just really understand the papers is to go through the with the with the help of somebody who's knows them better which Federalist number is the favorite over the years Oh for most people especially your professors feathers number 10 because this we have a professorial because Madison makes a theoretical professorial are I given to number 10 what about the students they feel Sam why they get the they get the light feathers number 10 – because feathers number 10 can be seen as an argument for diversity and diversity is a deport car has been an important principle in American political life I might add Hamilton was not quite so fond of Madison's argument Travis Lumberton one of the things I underlined it in Federalist and Merton is so strong is this propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities that where no substantial occasion presents itself the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to Kindle they're unfriendly passions and to excite their most violent conflict nice comment yeah I asked the students if they can think of any exams that I offer one from one place to another for example in Gulliver's Travels the fight between Lilliput and blue fescue as to whether you should open an egg at the big end or the small end another in here and that we get this constantly on our Collin shows have for 21 years it says here the two great points of difference between a democracy and a republic are first the delegation of the government in the ladder to a small number of citizens elected by the rest secondly the greater number of citizens and greater sphere of the country over which the latter may be extended and I know that's complicated but they Republic in the democracy when you read this are we a republic or are we a democracy well since we we rule through representatives we're Republic according to Madison that incident for me is an indication that we didn't know that from other for other reasons that Madison wrote for endless numbers then we would know that number 10 was his because Hamilton did not accept that distinction between the democracy in a real republic so from the Madison the democracy was direct rule by the people in the Athenian assembly Republic was indirect rule through a Congress in the New York Convention Hamilton called the Constitution a representative democracy that is to save my own surmise for this is that Hamilton did not think that representation changed the character of popular rule very much where Madison thought it changed it perhaps in a decisive way and therefore for Hamilton other means we needed to temper the wayward passions of democracy what was the relationship between Madison and Hamilton and Jerry they were all on good Hamilton and Jay were on rather close to zero fellow New Yorkers they were allies in New York politics and their thinking was very close Hamilton Madison cooperated in the in the Artic under the Articles of Confederation and the Continental Congress the various projects they got they got together to propose a constitutional convention at the Annapolis Mia meeting a year prior but they would not they were not close they got close for a period of times they're doing the writing of the fittest I mentioned I went back through their letters to see what their salutations in the closings were and as they is the collaboration proceeded they dropped the flaws of formal Clark closings your obedient servant to yours truly and then affectionately yours and then simply affectionately so there is a period of time where they felt the closeness to their collaboration and that's before they pulled a pot let me ask you this and in this as you said earlier Alexander Hamilton may have only been 30 years old but in here he makes the case to be an executive to be the magistrate to be the president you knighted States he got to be 35 because you're not then until 35 you're not wise enough and haven't have enough experience and all that and he was only 30 when he said then why is he so wise when he's 30 to be able to tell us that you had to be 35 to be President well some some get it don't get it early some don't I suppose the most most don't doubt it so much and because he he didn't write that I should add he didn't write the provision though I know I don't know that he ever criticized the provision you know that that was development I could the invention and so far as I know Hamilton never thought of himself as presidential timber Jefferson suspected that he had presidential ambitions but not a glint of it from how Muslims writings or his actions how much of this is out of date in the year 2000 not much that is there's a kind of there's a certain hardheadedness in the in the fenceless with regard to human bar motors there passed these from 51 that you that you read indicates that or Hamilton really to make the point even both strong needs a hip hit the reader says must be number men are ambitious vindictive and rapacious he might've said I have overdone this song but still there's a hardheadedness that has to be taken into account let's let's not get carried away and what do you stand you still find that much among Americans what are your students what are their what's the reaction that how old are they when they're in your class don't anything for juniors and seniors and grad students so you're talking about 20 years old no older older but but here they are reading this Federalist and the men 200 years ago that wrote this said that the men are evil that their money grubbers that their stock robbers oh well they may be I suppose you know Ronald Reagan's pet one of his tests for our phrases where resonates with what the what the frame is trust but verify and the favors and that does that idea appears in the feathers yes let's not overdo it there is virtue in human nature we take that into account but we can't put a full reliance upon first your virtue must must be on it must be supported by providing for self-interest for example if you want the president's to do his job against Congress and not just say the heck with it you had to give them a motive for facing up to Congress given long enough chair of office so the he'll be willing to defend his term give us six months to tear him as some of the state comforters did he won't be concerned with braving it against Congress back to Federals 10 for a moment this paragraph near the end a rage for paper money for an abolition of debts for an equal division of property or for any improper or wicked project will be less apt to pervade the whole body of the Union than a particular member of it in the same proportion as such a malady is more likely to taint a particular county or district than an entire state that's an interesting argument of Madison that is the state's a less mindful of your rights than the national government will be and do you agree with that no do in the South I say yesterday yes there's a fair amount of truth in it but not entire and when it went who's your favorite of the three whose arguments do you like the most Hamilton why that's again a nice question Oh Polly Madison loses out in the way that makes him a favor I think a say over Hamilton on one side and Jefferson on the other but their positions of moss that Xperia Copic boldly yes where Madison are Wiis a position of moderate positions not in between but why there's a clear understanding of the need of executive power in in Hamilton and clearer than Madison had that is that this society could only be held together by an energetic government indictment and energetic executive me that he spells that out in Federalist number 72 74 there's nothing well his desire he had a desire for fame it was of the noblest kind on the great issues they're separated when Hamilton and Madison fought I gently take Hamels positions the need for implied powers of government that is some flexibility in the powers of government he was not a strict constructionist as Jefferson was begin Madison wove a position somewhere in meat in between all the need for a national peg I need to consolidate the state debts and make them a national debt what would Alexander Hamilton be politically if he were here today in our in our society right now a Republican but since I voted for Clinton in 1996 Hamiltonian that's the issue is is not precise because he also also bleed in prudence anemic food as a Prudential judgment and for a person who made the wealth of his country as in the trustees they don't al Iran within the United States and one in his that exile he said I looked in one night and there is the man working away at his law law business the man who made the fortune of America working to keep this PMPM family fed he himself was not interested in a massive fortune in fact nearing the when he was a young event he wrote to his wife to warn her that yeah it popped property enters too little to his calculations as long as you brought it up but 96 how did you how did you vote in 2000 huh how'd you vote up pass on that well the reason I asked you is because the Federalist 68 oh I don't want to be a vet I'll be Hamiltonian on that Hamiltonian was sometimes in industry I bought of finally folders for Bush in the year 2000 what was it change why did you change from Glenda Bush as I looked well as I said it's close because Clinton I thought that had talents and abilities and accomplishments that I didn't expect to find in in Goa not as much Clinton had done I thought I thought a public service in bringing the Democratic Party especially the left wing of the Democratic Party was the center in more moderating it you find that moderation still in and yet there's a kind of a harshness of language used in the campaign by courts and some issues that I did not like do you find that because you are so steeped in this stuff and think it through so much that it's harder or easier for you to decide on who you're gonna vote for I don't it may it may be how harder as I as I weigh down that is as I work myself around Hamilton GI Madison Jefferson for example how try to get inside each person and see his audience and pay attention to the argue so that gives one pause even with regard to Jefferson who in some ways I like the least of the 300 paying of great testimony what do you say to folks that may have stayed with this interview just because they thought they would learn something who are sitting there saying why do I care about Madison and Hamilton and Jefferson and J who and in the Federalist Papers I mean you know some of this stuff you can't even understand why does it matter today there's so much of it still is relevant today or even see the choices that they make they make you they make their artists public with the clarity and was a profunda leader you do not often encounter say in political debates today and that's why thoughtful politicians will go back to the Federals another founding document if I give you one example there was a great controversy over the extent of the President's powers in Foreign Affair and leave guarding the use of the Armed Forces night especially it became very prominent in the night of late 1960s in the 1970 the best arguments opposing arguments were made by Hamilton and Madison after after the feather fed list and newspaper essays that they wrote so you've learned something from reading there are doctors there were thoughtful how much credence are they given in either court cases and court opinions that they often referred to and where in your experience where the where's the Federalist where are the Federalist Papers used the most in our discussion in the society today mmm perhaps in court cases because the offeree crease I started the Supreme Court in by by other courts the support points particularly three their arguments on federalism our argument on separation of powers and checks checks and balances been around 68 and don't forget judiciary I should not overlook judicial review the basic argument that judicial review was found in feathers number 78 is this word is that where John Marshall got his history John Washington yes yeah there's a statement that a story says that ma shoe I think Marshall had told him that besides Hamilton he and Livingstone the Chancellor of New York where was schoolfellows Hamilton was their teacher I started asking about federal 68 because that popped up a lot during the recent Florida recount story I can read it's part of it airs but it's by Alexander Hamilton it was equally desirable that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station and acting under circumstances farewell to deliberation and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and in doucement s– which were proper to govern their choice here's one more sentence a small number of persons selected by their fellow citizens from the general mass will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to so complicated an investigation these are the electors mm-hmm it also is interesting in that chapter or that paper that they clearly didn't think the masses could make decisions and did they well the the electors would be to the voters as a u.s. representatives are to the voters they would be guided by their by the voters when the voters you know had a strong view though they were not bound by those who voted but let me add something to that Hamilton makes more or the question of the matter of discretion than other members of the Constitutional Convention did that was not an important consideration in the setting of the electoral college in the other convention it was once they Helton and was some others and almost immediately the idea of the discretionary elector went by the boards there was one one elector in 1796 in Pennsylvania who did not cast his vote for John Adams even though he was a fella selector and notice it what's he doing he wasn't chosen to think he was chosen to vote but this line I wanted to ask your reaction to based on what we've just been through the process of election affords a moral certainty that the office of president will seldom fall to the lot of any man who is not and in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications all because of the electors oh no not not because they there's another part of the argument it was made both more in the Constitutional Convention in favor of direct election of the president is it there were a lot of delegates who wanted the direct election the people can see and the people can judge the the characters for the presidency much better than Congress the alternative was congressional selection congressional selection would would turn out a pouring executive because of congressional Kabbalah's Congress would I want to elevate a preeminent person whereas the people could make that judgment well in 68 this line to nothing was more to be desired than every that every practical practical both obstacles should be opposed to cabal intrigue and corruption yeah again once again corruption corruption yeah yeah oh yes what do you think these three men would think today they come back and look at what's happened in the last 200 years well they would say that the system has worked pretty well that it is very hard to corrupt the the electives because they're only elected for that purpose they cannot hold any other federal law office they they cast a vote in agon and then we can especially concerned with foreign powers because as they looked at the elections let's say in in Poland they they saw opt is opportunity for foreign currency indeed actually far far in corruption and choices made you're from where originally for Boston so you your whole life you've been in Boston no both my life probably open 11 away I left Boston when I was 17 when I when I joined the Navy like I get out I went to college in the West Coast finished up where in the Midwest I went to a junior college Compton college then UCLA for my BA and MA and then the University of Chicago for the PhD and then I taught in the Midwest at Michigan State and a SUNY Buffalo before returning to Boston why did you get into this business in the first place it went this way mister ma'am I get out of the Navy I didn't have I had not graduated from high school I quit enjoying the Navy and I had a voracious appetite by the time I get out which I did not have for four years earlier and so I just went through practically to the end and almost as though they said now you can go no further you've got a PhD go and teach no I I decided when I got to the apiaceae lovin that indeed this would be the next next step in my life so this is I never left the Academy we've talked a lot here about the University of Chicago over the years was Leo Strauss there when you were there yes he was did he teach you yes he did are you a Strauss Ian Ennis to the extent that I understand yeah he was one of the two best my two best teachers the other was Herrmann Chris you do contract constitutional law and I did my dissertation with a Herman Richard but stuff they were that in quite different ways the two most stimulating peaches in the department critical sciences Chicago and iowa's era why do you teach what is it that motivates you to do this stand in that classroom and talk to those young folks yes son says make them make them think touch perhaps touch Souls and you can touch the souls in different ways that is it's the closest thing to being in a priesthood perhaps but in there is a somewhat different but somewhat do you have a certain responsibility when your teaches you there's something tremendously satisfying in that do you lecture or do they open it up to questions I open up the questions and sometimes our basic largely on discussions for example when I teach the fed list after week after they get their two feet wet a little bit I'll have them make some reason of the essays then or we use that as the basis of discussion I mean by summaries how you read Phyllis number ten see if you understand the are the arguably out of them are the main points of feathers number ten problem foul factions what what is the factual ways of curing fire faction eliminating causes controlling effects just to see if they get it and I might say that may also be an influence of the course as I took with Strauss and that is to take serious arguments seriously and I try to transmit transmit that in my teaching Terra to my students to learn to teach them to read and also I teach myself to read I'm constantly surprised that things that I had not seen before when I reread them either because I glossed over why I thought that I I knew them where did you do your work on that the editing of these papers work what physical location uh a fair amount of it up in Maine I was on sabbatical last fall and I was back up there in the last summer we have a place in Maine where do you go in Maine under coast it's uh it's a lot support called the spruce said you work better there than you do in Boston prob probably you know I do where I work better there because I'm more isolated now III don't have the distractions of that wonderful city by me I qualify that somewhat because there are things that I want and so every so often I I make a safari down to Boston not to get more books than checked I check documents how many books have you written in your life about four and what kind of book Charlie well it's so much different my first thing was on the Michigan the Michigan Legislature I did something on a Michigan institution in the context of separation of powers is called the one go the one man grand jury I did it or do a read on the judicial process that would not count I did a monograph at javi Mansfield on on representation representation in defining that's there he handles the theory I handled the other founding a book on South Vietnam in the monograph on on South via Vietnam and a book on the Supreme Court in the presidency I'm not sure what that adds up to are you gonna do more yes I got a book Oh about half or halfway through on citizens and aliens in American society ranging from the founding up to the to the present time a new kind of citizenship I'm bought a liberal citizenship this modern library version of the Federalist ourselves for $25 if it's hardback if someone has never read them the papers and they don't have you to guide them in the classroom how do you recommend that they go about this take take a good course or patiently patiently reread them I was going to I thought of a key my introductory the kind of an exploration of the Federalist Papers I didn't for two reasons for for one thing are you I thought that I had to take up the question of authorship because the earlier edition had its description of our authorship I like just couldn't ignore that so I dealt with that but also I tell my students don't read into introductions because you read introductions and a lot of them are bad though they are they'll give you a wrong understanding or even if they give you the correct understanding you won't read the essays you depend upon what somebody else has told you now this is the context of my teaching the other Halas dude does it by himself buy a lot of hard work by their cliff nuts for the Pharaohs there are I looked at once but so long ago I don't remember them why were each of these they might help these Federalist Papers sign Publius it was common practice than not not to use funds owned name if I own all belief his writing for the newspapers was not quite proper only later later did political people sign their their name Publius itself was chosen because he was he was the the defender of the Roman Republic the one who Sarah helped establish the Republic and now that was done for a political reason because there were charges by the anti-federalists that the Constitution wasn't aristocratic or momin I could go document before and Hamilton's say no booby as the author is the defender of the Republic do you know whether these three men were paid to write these articles oh no no and did the newspapers that publish them have a commitment to the Constitution not necessarily because one of the newspapers stopped free printing and because oh about 27 of its subscribers wrote and said why are you wasting all this time on that stuff and they stopped published and they stopped but afraid of losing their subscribers are any of the newspapers on file to Library of Congress or in any others have you seen them yourself I have seen reproductions of some of the essays but I've not seen you know where in the newspaper did they put them that's a good question you don't know whether I was on the front page or in science III my guess my assumption is because it's really a guess on the first page but I don't know now as you list them here one through 85 and you said the last what seven were not published in the papers but we're initially published in book form where they were these published just like this chronologically one two three four five there was one a papist which the and put it in a more logical position and then and that and one one paper was cut in two because of its over length but other than that they're they appear in their chronological form and how is it blocked off in the you know have the eighty-five what are the major categories that they wrote about like the executive I know is one of them and the house is one of the Senate's another one what are some of the other ways that they even yeah well uh I try to make the table of contents clears of a reading could almost could tell the organization of their so if you look you'll see that the it's the the structure of the government generally separation of powers and checks and balances and then the Publius goes into each of the branches of the House of Representatives the Senate the president and the judiciary or we can say that constitutes there's a largest number which one of all the 85 do you find in class the students like the least and why be easier for visa to turn that around and say which ones days they seem to like they're the most I think they they like number one it's the kickoff – after the rest interesting things in their City number 10 amount of Madison's famous our argument fellas number 15 is interesting because it ends up with the the nucleus of the Monroe Doctrine that we can become the mistress in the new world the ones are in separation deposit sexy balance is 47 through 51 62 and 63 on the Senate why you need to send it as a restraint on the House of Representatives you learned about a lot about the house in reading about the Senate and then the great argument of Hamilton's on executive energy number 70 and then the one the difficult is a but rewarding us a federal 78 on judge the role of the judiciary in judicial review where there articles written at the same time that answered these yes who did him well various the anti-federalists the two most prominent or the opponents that at least the ones that come to my mind with the the federal farmer in in Cato in fact I think Cato started writing before Tobias got into the fray and where their names do we know who wrote them this son dispute as to whether calc ADA was governor Clinton of New York some people think that he was and thought that the federal farmer was I wonder one of the LEAs of Virginia who's on the cover here oh that's the constitution to convention that looks like Washington's the NEF but that was one one pot all of what that I had nothing to do with but I'm pleased with it it's it's a ferret painting is about other members of the Convention and is that Franklin sitting prominently in the fire in the middle there our guest has been Robert sigelei on Oh professor at Boston College and the cover you're looking at is the newest version of the Federalist put out by the Modern Library thank you very much for joining us

4 thoughts on “The Federalist Papers Explained: Authors, Hamilton, Important Quotes, Summary (2000)

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