Literature as a Future-making | SOAS University of London



okay so welcome to tonight's so our Center for studies lecture in a theory tonight's the last session in our contemporary taiwan indigenous studies lecture series that we've been running over the last two years so it's it's a sad moment but we are working to continue this series over the next few months that are will be more including our documentary on army hip-hop coming up and we are starting to have at least two more events this term and we will have more into determined three on this theme of Taiwan's indigenous peoples for those of you that missed last night's remarkable talk last night's enough night to talk to Devon gave us a bringing an overview of two trends of indigenous literature over the last few decades and she could have build on that talk tonight to defend did her PhD in Chinese and nestled under University and now works in the the tower literature it's your department department national team our University and hopefully tonight would have a little bit we kind of rushed the Q&A a little bit last night but hopefully a little bit more time than for Q&A so let's give professor Chen another big okay thank you all of you come here in the beautiful Friday night you know oh but I walk around the street I feel a lot of people relax in a Friday night so I really appreciate all of you come here and I hope after our exam I talk we have a lot of time to discuss this topic maybe in this way we are dead the night more beautiful okay my um this is my second talk about about Hawaii gents the torture today I want to talk about this topic the topic is three heaven three keywords literature native resurgence and Aboriginal analogy we called a peace a peace technology so my presentation is divided these two parts one is to talk about a relationship of the three keywords and that it not the other I was sure for stories to respond this topic so this is my presentation and if if I want to talk about indigenous literature as a way of for future making we talked about the four point of view yesterday we talked about the change of writing style and the literature our transformer into culture and creativity industrial so we talked about this topic these are this topic is focused on the change the change way the Skylon from realistic to magical really learn so the yesterday we talked about this topic I want to focus on the Indian striker want to continue a story so they use different ways to tell the story and attract people's attention so I think this is the way they want to attract all of you to be a reader so they use popular popular ways or transformer into movies car come and some products product so but today I want to focus on another part on this the future are making the part is I think some writers redefine the cultural identity and to think fantastic what view in their literature may be their ideal reader is themself is the tribal people so I think their their ideal reader is different one maybe is maybe all of us included on hand people and their tribe but the other and though we will talk about this maybe this are detention their ideal reader is tribal people so I would like to show whether when literature focus on cultural identity and focus on the world of view maybe this is they they talk about the topic oops native resource by literature what his native restores our resource I think I have a some ideas from James Clifford just Clifford is as knowledge astir and he he is a surprise book the book is returns become indigence in the 21st century I think the main thing of the book is talking about the integers people can't disappear and the culture of indigenous people don't didn't we all not vanish because they obtain materials from deeply rooted and a temple tradition so to deal with this rooted and a temple tradition they can force the proper time they can they can deal with the force of globalization and the capitalism so in this book of you avoid the the Jim Clifford insist maybe if indigenous people want to have a good future they have to come back to find their tradition but I think the James Clifford says if indigenous people compare to final tradition the tradition is not capital D and is not continuously and don't change tradition the tradition is a process about engagement about performance and unchaste elation so according to him Native resurgence is a continuous process involved this country charity so with this charity as many as metric identity is not about returning to an intention and a continuous tradition but about a process of forming a new unity in this book I think when he talked about native researchers he suggests indigenous people come back to a final tradition but the tradition is a process is a charity to find a new way to form a new unity so by the way indigenous people will find a new way to to live in a modern life if we take these native researchers we can talk about the tradition and epistemology in that way I will use the example this example is from our heat island town people you see the pictures the men are to try to fish further for for this peoples men what every day and fish is the men work for men every day but when they have a loan on a flying fish festival the men have a to do a lot of things like to make a boat to fish to dry the fish and share this food and he and he have a to tell some stories to their families about this ceremony so this is a kind of haha static life in the town peoples and but you see another picture the picture is 90 feet 50 now people have their religious conversion so I love first and a start of this test of all our people will blazing in traditional way and then they will give a blessing from Pastor so I'll use this flying fish festival to talk about the tradition and indigenous peoples knowledge I want to I want to share the indigenous indigenous knowledge ena he this knowledge is practiced every day like I say men fish every day this is their culture and the practitioner has holistic way like flying fish festival is a set of customs to to have this ceremony and very interesting in teaching knowledge in not mean the tradition culture not mean local culture because we can identify what is local culture you see that the Christian religion come to the tribal their traditional culture what was mixed by Christian so I think indigenous knowledge revealed the kind of cross cultural critic so what can we identify the aboriginal knowledge I think it is very interesting because we have a to choose different way to describe it and maybe every people every tribe have a miss two or three cultures together and then this is their tradition Eden is their integers knowledge so this is a special way I want to talk the tradition and Aboriginal Knology by the way I want to talk about the relationship that indigenous literature and indigenous knowledge if we know the indigenous knowledge have a is the process by tradition local culture and mix some cultures from others by the way we can focus on three part of indigenous people and their knowledge one is the primary road the also the dry turn returned to their tribe and start to record family stories the officer organize and summarize the knowledge based other they based on life experience and they describe in new generation so the first we can see some stories the story our ship share a set of customs this is the first part and two as indigenous people who live in the tribe culture and mainstream culture at the same time their knowledge should have a the property of being cross culture so indigenous writer face changing culture and then their identities they have an opportunity to redefine the couple cost consumption of indigenous so the second part is like yesterday I mentioned maybe some writers used magical realism to to tell story because they think they are indigenous that heaven is a mixed cost on matter either so this is the Mick's result live so I use the diverse cultures to describe the second level of indigenous knowledge and the third earth for the writing fields we talked about yesterday for indigenous people writing is makin new world they are not passive responders for astral environment they by writing make they could make a reward by this way they would make social space to define themselves so is full of energy and active and when we see the relationship about did not your field and indigenous knowledge maybe we can think interesting way some writers read a story and the story is very special for for all of us so when we see this book we clearly identify this is indigenous literature so when we see this book maybe some writers and the some pop some stories have a cultural social and spot and symbolic capital they this capital would support some travelers native researchers this is three part I want to show up original knowledge included the the the prom the primary world diverse cultures and writing field and I buy by these pauses and valleys talking we I want to focus on in indigenous literature show the indigenous knowledge personís will have a to notice the this knowledge this indigenous knowledge also make a new way to tell the story sometimes I can see some story with the storm with some interest in style from the legends from the stories so if we we are the way we can see the dinner church shows represent the indigenous couple knowledge also has required is an influence on each other we can see some works use special way from Allroad oral folklore or already culture so this is influenced by each other and i want to share some story about this to respond the indigenous knowledge the story of time the story of time till a boy grew up this story focused on it the writer used this style to tell a boy from his birth and from his teenager to get in marriage and death a whole home of life a man would have us a lot of customs and ceremony in in wildlife so the right use this style to tell the story of growing to tell a story of time to repeat them all on customs in in the inner life so a set of customs would be seen in a story we can see a lot of customs because this is the main thing in the story and we read this story we can we not only understand this ceremony but also feel the emotion during the ceremony so I think if the writer used use this way he want to share a man from the birth to the death and maybe 50 or 60 years there are a lot of ceremony on our life in this way to interesting point we can recognize them one how can the collective heritage be personalized of the propose of different literary writing you know this is collective heritage but for writer he had to find a new narration to tell the story even the story is full of custom and ceremony so we we may we may focus on be personalized because this is the vision for the writer and a second how can we give mountain meanings to the many systems and means thinking this is very interesting you know in mountain life we say the miss the the means is front and center is old but if we read the story we have a to find new meaning about this so when we see the story readers every reader read the story he can really understand the ceremony it's in the morning and maybe he would find new meanings – if blend this although maybe he is he is help people and it is not upper region so this is the story of time and this topic is phantom our is trauma because everyone have at least does have enough sense situation about the first and dance the second I think you are not you are familiar with this the second story is about urban which yesterday we talked about which but today I focus on the urban because in hyewon avenges people live in city oh then live in the city so if they're worth the the energy always describe they live in a tribe or they want to they live in a tradition way but in fact they are live in a city so the integers brighter center use this story to share something to represent contingents people live in cultural and absolutely culture so the story happened in the city and to tell a difficult journey from a girl this girl have a tool faith there it to have a toothpaste exam but he be recalled to be a witch I think this story is very interesting because the city is for indigenous people is is better especially in the indigenous movement they think the city is evil because people have a to forgive a lot of things to earn them living in the city so the city is a paid meaning but in this story he chants for this situation he's the writer described the colonel live in the city and the use mp3 use CD to study the tradition like songs like ceremony because she have a no chance to live in a tribal she live in the city but used mountain ways to learn the tradition so I think this is very interesting because this story shows the city become a place where the indigenous people could assess resources and interpreted their tradition they live in a city and finally way to compact to catch the tradition so the city have a transform the meetings the city supports a lot of a chance a lot of opportunities : and the story of urban which support and have a maybe let me to think about which name we should to say because in the city we have a lot of choice to beat all kinds of people maybe the people live in the city backup that we beggars we we have a different identity at the same time he'll have a lot of a chance to be the person you want to be so the writer changed the image of the city to ugly the the tribal you know the the main thing in indigenous literature all people attract people all indigenous want to go back home now home is tribal but now we have a too think this topic they live in the city and the finally way to make a new home in the city so remember the gents creeper his topic of the topic a book is returns as so the returns it means the indigenous people come back come back to the tribal but they have a not stay in a tribe they have a to come to the city or come to another place and then they also you come back to the home come back to the tribe this is returns the meaning of returns so by migrations the state the trace for indigenous people will be complicated and this way will make them to ensure which them should we say so this is about the story of urban another interesting story is about garden this story always end and with God like this story this story is about a girl the girl he he he he had a paid for Tibet fortunately in his life but the story ended with God she carried the sense of guilt until here we understand what was the best word Picard so I think this story is very interesting like we say the story of urban indigenous people live in the urban they live in the city now and indigent people are Christian most of them are Christian so you may argue what is their tradition because we also think the tradition is his original culture tribe culture but the Christian religion change a lot change this way like we talked about the flying fish festival they the start of this pets from the start of this festival they use the Christian ceremony through blazing so on this story of God the driver want to have a tension between the tribal culture and a Christian region by the way the story also showed a special topic of this I remember the fear on Easter day says a lot of scholar talk about the issue of indigenous we stayed strong and don't know how to do so we we talk in this first stage there are a lot of say story about this because is true and in these people have to find a new way to live in among the world but this story with God are special because the story alone the story the start of story are or say is eight by the end the stone are the corruptor will be reversed when they meet the God so I think it is very interesting you know most of them are Christian and the Christian religion is their daily life even maybe mix with the tradition so this story we all have a new topic of indeed people literature like Reapers I think is it is very a surprise to me because Reapers is not the traditional we know the pork local cultures thinking rebirth is from Christian so when the story about God and have this special issue of Reapers maybe this is the we we talk about the aboriginal knowledge with diverse culture this is the simple of the diverse culture so we see the story of God and we also see the story of rainbow I think this is another interesting issue because um the the rainbow issue is famous and a popular in Taiwan we we have a lot of people to join this activity to cram the rice Korean human rights and for and in a in this film the story about the rainbow about a gender issue there for them for integers people if it is an integer sky we all of have a lot of conflict with a lot of situations like mainstream society like part like the father society but it is very surprised because indigenous you know GPT where you have a have a to struggle with Christian religion because in their tribe most of them are Christian so the although some Christian Christian have an open mind but most of them have a to have a Latif having to heaven this up and stood two against LGBT so in visions people even if they are a kind then we all face a lot of challenge in Taiwan especially in Christian region so I use these are live this is movie but some literature heaven this the sin the same correct to to say that a story of rempah it will shows that indigenous ethnic group and gay mix and this this identity we all let them have a lot of change have a lot of challenge in mountain life so I share this are these stories for stories like story of time story of God story of brembo and story of city I think this is truly if this is the situation for indigenous people in Taiwan now most of them live in a city most of them are Christian and they are maybe I know a lot of friends they are you know they are gay they have a they they have this this choice so mmm this is the I think this is not we call the tradition but now we have a to use different way to see this to see this tradition because the tradition is processed and now indigenous people having these situations so what how can we define the tradition we can say the tradition with local culture and the city culture maybe yes and the week we might be we also have a to say the the local culture the track culture makes Christian culture and this is the true situation for indigent people now so literature as a way for future making I want to explain the relationship like this I think the furniture show and they display their knowledge their worldview and the epistemology rectifying a cultural identity this knowledge have a double maybe the cultural tribe from confront tribe and from mainstream this is the I think this is all of the resource form for indigenous people to think to read to build their knowledge and by this the knowledge will define the cultural identity and the cultural identity will support native resurgence I think this are their relation is about this so this is this is the main thing I talk the literature we all make our a way for native researchers because this signature will ensure cultural identity and there this topic of indigenous literature there this are the ideal return is for themselves if they reduce the data array reduce work they were feel yes I have a tool really fun my cultural identity yes I have a to rethink I would which now that I want to say in the mountain life so when the indigenous people redefine their cultural identity they have the way to adapt in a mountain life this is maybe this is our hope and this is not my conclusion I think in the first stage we also use different way to say Who I am like this picture we use the the right way the rap world realistic style to shoot to cram rise the Nam fine I describe all kinds of indigenous knowledge maybe the question mark is for many because the Who am I question mark shows the attitude of choice if indigenous people have the attitude have the choice have a – choice which name he want to share with others it means in digit people have a free have a freedom have their right to choose what life they want to do so I give the question mark active meaning I think it shows the returns us returns the issues of a choice and if other indigenous people ask Who am I and they followed a chance Craver the tragedy they will choose the suitable way to deal better and they will feel confident to to to choose the way they want to be so I think in Taiwan maybe each each men have a tool to share their identity but you know we have a different identity at the same time right sometimes we are asked you are who are you we they're tired I wish we have a to choose one but in real situation maybe each of us have a a lot of choice at the same time maybe we have a two or three identity at the same time right so if it teaches people to have a choice to say Who am I and the choose the one of the identity I think this is the dream maybe this is a call for the indigenous native researchers so this is the literature I use literature to talk about this topic I think the ties okay and I am happy to talk about this with you many of the scholars spoken on on this lecture series thanks at least you don't want universe so something like half of their students are so what in contrast you're in a regular mainstream Tony's probably this the number of indigenous students is pretty low your class so I was kind of curious about how your students back in Taiwan and feel about the kind of work that you're doing how do they do they actually enjoy this literature so let me just start with that that question okay at one point you talked about that many of these writers you okay you feel like they're writing for themselves rather than for mass audiences students react to this kind of work Thank You favi I think this is a very interest question it depends on students right and you know I know the teachers you invite from the one and in if the reader are indigence student maybe in a way of beyond yes the book the the writer described the wrong culture some highs yes because they use the different way to to read the story they will check what is true and above ears maybe really situation but for me all four of my students we are not indigenous people and we are we are attracted by these constants the storytelling and the the viewpoint from them because a life with we talk the story of time you know my my students are very interested in this story because they this is different way between us right and they are in the story when the Quanah baby bird they when the people there's a lot of ceremony to do this but this expect is a very special form for me pause so my students are interested to read this spatial story it different between us I think this is this question is very interesting because it it means some writers write this topic become their cultural capital because when when the book when the story want to be discussed maybe they have a to focus and we have an we will buy the book and the talk about this topic the writer and the story have the cultural capital and I think for different return have a different feel feel feel being a published story so my student liked the story but some of them ah didn't satisfied there's this this kind of story because the story is all the are most of the story use the realistic style and my student especially young student they like to read magical realism or read some tendency story and they want to they want to get heavy mind when they read a story sometimes so I think you depend on the students and I don't know I don't know maybe in all your experience when you see the the soccer story it will that you think a lot and we when we read a happy story we will think a lot too so I think these are the story if the story our talk or discuss a lot maybe this is the this is the writers your real hope of certain dynamics involved and I want to suggest that you and your own presentation have Illustrated another aspect of that in the way that you use English which I find both unconventional and also beautiful the way in which you pronounce words would immediately confront a certain kind of top-down structure within languages so in England we will be taught how to pronounce the language which is other than the way in which it can be pronounced because the English language like all languages but in Chinese languages can be pronounced in a number of ways and often the case when you would use a word like bestowed the way you pronounce it would force us to confront what it actually means and how it has been put together and I think that cuts in very well with this idea of the multipolarity of identity in terms of how we come to understand it because often the case identity is always presented as a static medium but as you suggest it's one which if it's to be properly embedded has to be an enlightened medium it has to be one which is based around self reflection and I guess in indigenous communities right in minority communities one of the real problems has been the sense in which existing practices are often presented as being the actual identity nation of that particular group without any proper reflection on how they come to be and I think this is part of the necessary progress that we need to make in liberation struggles thank you for your comments yeah I agree with you and sometimes when we talk about the topic of identity it is very difficult to to talk because we also think indigenous people have their identity maybe but I argue even if some situation the indigenous people back teenagers they don't want to talk the topic of identity yeah because they they think the identity is so politic and they they they live in the modern society and sometimes they they will show their identity but sometimes they don't they want to they want to live in in the same way and now in a not to be identified in different situation and identified in different ways so you are commanded let me think interesting experience some indigenous writer write the customs write traditions to make the earth clear identity but still then don't like do this they write the novel in common way so far we when we read this novel we can identify which one write the story and we see all this is indigenous writer so I think this is another tragedy because strategy yes story strategy and yeah I think it is very interesting because we also to want to clear the identity but some then don't do this because um for them maybe in my home we don't we we want to be the same with others and have the equal right have an eco viewpoint yeah I remember last night you talked about your definition of what is indigenous leadership and you you all kind of key defining point is it's really by dizziness right yes but if there's no indigenous connection in the content does that still does that still pass your test yes yes yes you're not English literature you wouldn't say that what so continent you won't force the writer to say particular kind of thing you have to talk about English afternoon tea because I know see in the in the English literature case often the case what's happened in England is English literature exists as English literature the way that you describe but then when a minority group more so engages in it then they're expected to have the minority form of literature but at the same time you can't say so they can't do it of course so that's exactly I don't think it should be okay thank you very much because this is a extension of today's talk so uh can I combine the both talks and then and are some questions first of all we did touch upon before the talk did deny that although the fundamental conclusion I can tell is this kind of the journey to search for Who am I leads to this kind of future building of their own identity and a more constructive and also a positive way but in this journey I only see men's voice and this is a very one-dimensional future building so did if this is the case race woman's voice and I was you did mention one particular one and as a mother and as a grandmother not as a woman so can you elaborate a little bit what has been done or or hasn't been done yeah thank you for your question I think this is an important question yes I think to ensure cultural identity is one way for for religious people to to be need to find the native such as researchers and aspect but we yesterday today we we heard a lot of a story from man right and sometimes in in see in real situations people writers that meant the right press maybe we can think is August a we talked we talked about although he right she's her mother and grandmother and his feminists are invoked by his marriage even though I think for the women if if if it is very difficult to to give up their identity of indigence because I have asked our own because he feminists it is clear but he said even though he always always said he/she is a upper regions and then she said woman yeah so I asked I argued maybe you can do you are woman and then engages he said she said no yeah yes so I this is why I told a story of gender because in the same situation for LGBT because in the Taiwan LGBT is important issue sometimes the the indigenous people want to stop want to support this this social movement but when they come back to their tribe their they they kept really tell their story because first there are indigenous and then they are LGBT so I think this is interesting okay does that mean that in a sense by being indigenous within their local community also being LGBT would come to be something else so of course you can be any number of things as one identity but if in the first identity those who are part of it would then say ah then if you're in business you can't be LGBT yes yes yeah but you know sometimes I think the cultural LGBT or the the feminist is very different from the indigenous culture a lot of tribe is ah is father society and the woman didn't do any judgement in the family most of all most of their to also do this so sometimes they they want to talk about something in their works yeah we hope in the future maybe there will be never stress that they are feminists in their in their literature what is tradition it's bad tradition you know is it worth keeping identity actually come from the intersectionality effect where you have to choose between being from a certain ethnic identity and also then being a woman and then when you're already in a minority group it's harder to sort of let yourself choose that individual perspective as compared to the society which is anyways it's a small part of a bigger capitalistic both of course is contacts isn't it in a certain context it's important to be indigenous but in other contexts is more important to be a woman so I don't think it's necessarily only one or the other yeah true that's your end and it depends on the situation then the the woman are yes like now we be is a teacher and that's when he come back home maybe yes but I know uh I think more you are asking for your questions I think each one have a different identity to choose and I'll be chosen yes yes that's different isn't it well the point the point is that within a minority grouping of whatever kind the identity only comes to be recognized when other people tell you about it because some black boys will say they only found out they were black one everyone noticed it oh well I didn't even tell the difference fighting for the mic we did you like focus is a little bit different yes so I don't know if I can find a question but of course today's tour was also very interesting there's two things that occupied my mind one is the title you know church as future building which certainly resonates with me if you look at least year of Irish independence it's totally bound up with literature same as Scotland the same in Finland which only seventeen eighteen um and a lot of that literature was seeking I mean not just those three countries but it's equally a european-wide phenom phenomenal actually a phenomena she was going back to the past and very often going back to the pre-christian past because many people kind of feel that Christianity has been more harmful that than good for formal frost Europeans and a lot of great European works of art I'm thinking about 50 below Picasa actually were created in outright defiance and opposition towards Christianity so I'm a little bit concerned because you know indigenous communities embracing monotheistic religion this is a bit like Turkey's voting for Christmas you know sounds a bit mixed up with me okay um but I think it's very put a very important idea that the literature helps people to find a place to proclaim their identity not happy playing bothered by other people from somewhere else you know you take I mean a lot of the traditional religions in inter Wireless shamanistic traditional religion in Korea this chap monistic and before Christianity all over Europe there were various focuses shamanism indeed people are not aware of how persistent along these beliefs have been and you know take fire festivals or she have in Scotland we were down to one and your Christianity almost stumped it out we were down to one particular festival but during the later 20th century when he baby grip the hold that Christianity has had on society has relaxed of course it's a lot of space for for the celebration of some of these beliefs not necessarily they'd be going back to the police but the celebration of some ease these do to to research to come back I want to reply with you thank you for your comment I think you you mentioned an important phenomena is Christian this region is about indigenous people like feminist I think this issue is also important to discuss in Taiwan most of in most of indigenous people are Christian and they also have them the Christmas Day and they something many 15 days this scene the song with their mother tongue even the music is from the West but they the language is this mother tongue so it is the mixed situation in the tribe so I think this is a good example to to focus on the mixed culture because in digits people don't don't give up their mother tongue talk about their local tradition but there are Christian they have a done as I'm going to celebrate so they are they use them the suitable way to to be integers Christian yes so I argue if um maybe the first they are indigenous over the first they are Christian you know some has the in the film inner the topic we talk about big allow first identity is indigenous people and then he is a woman but I argue may be the first the first identity is indigenous or Christian yes I'm not suggesting from other coaches about think culture is a living thing does indeed come from Latin the same wrote is viticulture agriculture and so on is something that we make ourselves just what concerns me is when one dominating form absorbs another then finish your loss that's that's what worries me okay two or three or four or five or many more things coming together yes I speaking from my limited personal experience which is mainly in Central America and Brazil it's extraordinary how you can get hybrid religions the Christianity is even way too cannot play in Brazil and song and in the places of worship you can see the the purity of chanting going on in the church was something that they often take the seeds and so and strangely enough in my knowledge of southern Mexico Guatemala the Catholic Church has more or less accommodated to this it's the Protestants who fly in from Texas with email from God and so on but they're the one is really their child resistance they want a monotheistic Christianity but of course the hybrid is extremely fascinating with fetishism through tourism strange symbolism yeah could I come come back I thought the story of the rainbow audience which was quite fascinating I was curious about the we talked about the film like this when we're thinking about how many indigenous people we've got two hot distinct we look those who live in the city and those that don't and do you have any sense how that was received was was it roundly condemned by certain groups in Taiwan you followed yes so some yes and I think this is maybe the this is the issue and recently appear you know indigenous LGBT this topic this this group is least real released in in a tribe and in a city but they don't they don't identify to others they are LGBT because if they do this like the movie a leaf they they want to the character want to change their social lives their sex their sex they want to they want to change to change to a girl a boy from a girl and if the movie shows is when he come back to the tribe he feel a lot of conflict from his father his families he is tribe and even the the tradition so I think it although it is the same situation in in the group in Taiwan LGBT group in Taiwan but for indigenous people mostly what most of them have a tool to challenge the the Christian religion yes and maybe this is big typical of them yeah questions okay go ahead thank you for your presentations really fascinating I really like it also your presentation gives me also an tears about how I can do my research I'm interesting about you talking about indigenous people and unchristian and then um I'm not really know the situation in Taiwan so this indigent people become the Christian just in the urban area or also in tribal area is a tribal and the Bourbon all area so why they become too you know becoming Christians not the other religions yeah yeah yeah a lot of research about it because what I think most important reason is in vision people in maybe 90 50 years before they are very poor because in Taiwan society we treat them differently so they have an own they have enough initial and they have a they have a good material for them to have a good life so no love at first beginning the Christian are gives some money some food for them and I heard a lot of people say at first they go to the church with them because the church that they will give their food money their clothes like like people in Taiwan in 1915 so at first this is the main reason and then you will find some pastor use their language use their mother tongue language to teach them the Bible and then they they use the they write their mother language and to try to close to them sometimes even the pastor we all built help them to to reconstruct their tradition like language like house like star culture so if we say the Christian is paid I think this is this is um maybe for LGBT yeah sometimes they are they are they don't like this this region but for most of the indigenous people the Christian help there a lot of things even though until now they were indigent people admire a lot of pastors and the pastor's are spend a lot of years to get together with these indigenous people they build a close relationship with each others and yeah I think you you you remind me why images people didn't close to laputa or mostly yes maybe this is the this is about the history of the region especially Christian into the China and into the Taiwan this this is about the history about it yeah in 1950 a lot of Christian come to China and come to Taiwan to to share ideas of God and they go to the tribal because the this pastor believed in tribal they will find really people that God want to choose yes we did have a talk dis conversion in indigenous communities and of trying to kind of rack my brains to kind of go back your time but you do remember does it really get going in the late Qing Dynasty before so it's quite a historical process but I still I'm not entirely sure because the time period is the same so we have the missionaries coming to Taiwan in the late 19th century and through into the Japanese colonial era but why it's more effective in indigenous communities it's still something I need to go back and look at the Scott Simon's paper did you want to add something on this okay so okay you were battling I just want to say that I find it your way of speaking English perfectly normal you will understand exactly oh great okay okay so on that nice compliment maybe we should continue our discussion over some sort of wine

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