Dale L. Roberts: Explaining the How and Why of Self-Publishing



hey this is Jay and this is Chelsea welcome to the shifting perceptions podcast we are bringing you inspiration to live a more creative lifestyle because our favorite people are the ones that cues the path less traveled hello everyone and welcome to the 41st episode of the shifting perceptions podcast this is Chelsea keeping up with our super informative entrepreneurial theme we've been running we follow on from last week's podcast about scaling your online business with Judy buff by sitting down with Dale Roberts and taking a deep dive into the world of self-publishing you may know Dale as the host of the popular YouTube channel self-publishing with Dale or is the author of over 3,000 books that are currently online what started as a squat challenge made by his corporate wellness coach ended in Dale's desire to share his knowledge of fitness with other people he said about writing a book that would help others on their fitness journey and the rest is history for the past five years Dale has built up a lucrative career by self-publishing his own books when people notice his business go from zero to 60 he received many questions from other would-be authors and realized the demand for a knowledgeable and experienced coach in the field of self-publishing ever the innovator Dale decided to create a YouTube channel that is devoted to building a successful self-publishing business and which he shares his experiences we got advice from Dale on how to get started in the world of self-publishing as well as other ways budding entrepreneurs can create additional streams of income Dale focuses his business model on book publishing a video production and public speaking and stresses the importance of giving value in everything that you do this conversation is full of useful insights and advice on self-publishing and monetizing what you're passionate about you're gonna like it I promise hey guys this is Jay alders a couple of quick things if you have not yet clicked subscribe on your podcast player please do that right now yeah so I just did another limited edition poster for the band 311 you know them they do songs like this and yeah they're awesome I've done about four posters for them and this one is I only have a couple of couple left actually released it yesterday and they almost sold out so I think there's about 10 left or 11 left and you can go on jay alders dot-com slash 311 if you want to check that out in other news I also have been having some cool flash sales on my Instagram and my facebook so if you're looking to get a really good last-minute deal on some artwork go to my Instagram or Facebook you could find me at Jay altars and thank you guys for all of the great reviews we had a review from redentor Rhett I'm gonna say this terribly read and esky read didn't ski sorry I said that horribly and this person says I really liked that not one episode is the same one made me laugh another made me think hard the topic of conversation varies so much that you're always engaged and wanting to listen more keep it up guys well thank you very much Rand and every dent read an esky holy smokes we got another one from handmade jewelry Haven love the chill vibe I get when I listen to this podcast on my way to work totally puts me in the right mindset for my day Lisa thank you Lisa so yeah thank you guys for connecting with us so much our Instagram is now up to over 11,000 followers which winners stoked about so thank you for that on that note let's jump in Amanda Chelsea haha super close one the funny thing is I was just looking at someone's name said Amanda and I just said it out loud one of those 80s babies names the thing is now your name's Amanda from this day okay we'll buy her like a red wig and a color Amanda tonight we'll see how it goes live the kickin all hate not an issue man its I tell you when the hits the fan the hits the fan yeah preach it brother preach it hey not not an issue I although I did talk to Steve Scott he says he's never heard of you yeah he was with us this weekend I just saw him at the beach she told me to talk to you yeah he's a good dude man I'll tell you I swear my timing is always off with this dude probably about a couple years ago okay I was like hey would love to interview for my channel and he kind of came back and he's like not really doing the whole self publishing thing I'm kind of focusing on my habits brand I was like oh okay and then I go and I see he's got a YouTube channel I was like get out of here he's got a YouTube channel I go over that's like hey man you know we'd love to kind of get you over you know talk with you maybe you know how boost your channel and he was just like what did you guys chat about then we just it was just a a brief exchange via messenger so okay nothing too in-depth got it I gotta you know be honest you know obviously he's probably just Scott – you just got to us yeah yeah he's mega superstar I told him that he like I was like yeah I think that was kind of like a fanboy and he was he got a lot of blushed up and was like I don't understand that he's like I don't know how to take that people do that he is like it's just so funny I mean he he's actually the reason J and I are together we know him away pre for pre wait way for you Steve Scott yeah it was actually kind of a shock to us really really wait a min you have a pen name what the hell is going on here yeah okay I love the back story of how he ended up sharing how he ended up getting the pen name because being creeped out by people yes showing up to his doorstep that's why I Kelly actually primary one of the main reasons why we live where we're at we live in a secure community okay get security at night our garage is completely locked up and in building it's because all the self publishers are bombarding your house right just how to publish talks about self-publishing all the time and you're really loud right I'm gonna come where your face we do want to like hear about how this happened Dale because I feel like that wasn't your initial intention right to end up in self-publishing where we are now is that what's good yeah is there any better way to surprise so yeah you know what the funny thing is you know I you are right on the money it was never an intention to get into self-publishing Chelsea I'm not sure if you had we're we're already kind of spying on me or any other interviews my intention really was just to fulfill a challenge by a corporate wellness coach I'd worked in the health care industry for 20 years and primarily as an activities director I was paid to play and I've always been big about fitness I'm really big about health and fitness and my corporate wellness coach could not challenge me enough I mean I would do like you know she would say how many squats can you do straight I was like let's see if I can do a thousand and I would do a thousand squat straight like what do you got next and then it it became ridiculous proportions till she was like you know it would be really awesome if you would share what you know about health and fitness by writing a book and I'm like yeah I'm gonna do that because I'd always wanted to write a book it wasn't until probably about a year and to me writing this book and looking into publishing it myself and I was looking at local printers and things like that that I stumbled over create space and create space at the time an Amazon own company they had this opportunity for self-publishing for no money I was like this is no-brainer I'm gonna be on Amazon so I'm like oh right so I accidentally stumbled on that and when I first got my first paycheck it was $23 in some odd sense baller yeah dude I know I know I'll take you two out to eat one of these days drinks are on me except you're only allowed to order waters at any rate yeah it was it was proof of concept to me and that was all I really needed and it just happened to be a circumstance that I loved my job but I love my wife way more than I love my job and I felt this this distance that was being put between us and the job was the one that was there so this opportunity of self-publishing kind of came up and my brain said quit your job and and I did by the way folks I don't I don't recommend that it's never a good idea don't either for the record yes yes a couple years of really tough times but after we got through about the first year and a half to two years it started getting better and we're at today I'm super happy with that so what were you spending that first like two years doing so you were self-publishing but what were you so you did not do in thousands of squats oh right cause you could in two years got it well you know in that time I was really trying to soak up the business and I was this is during kind of the Kindle publishing gold rush where everyone was going and you would just churn out any kind of garbage publish it and make money hand on fist unfortunately I the writer side of me couldn't settle on just putting out hammered garbage onto the market and I really wanted to publish really good stuff so it was just a case of trial and error I tried to just pretty much for lack of better word spray-and-pray I was writing in various that sound shoes and hoping for the best and it wasn't until I actually I hired a coach the gentleman's name was Jason Brock funny I was just talking to him before we got on here and Jason spent some time with me and really gave me direction and got it to where I understood the business so much better and you know he looked at me and pretty much was just like what are your high performing assets and I would point it out to them double down on that so that's like a hard thing to recognize in yourself too because I'm sure those highest performing ones did not always align with the things you enjoy doing the most you know I didn't deviate too far from things I'm passionate on so but they actually the ones that actually did the best I now right now it's it continues to be the fitness brand which is you know kind of slowly but surely died a horrible death because I've paid less attention to it over the past couple of years and I've been focused more on the self-publishing with Dale brand and the reason why I took a step away from it was I just burnt out I just there's only so many ways you could teach people how to do push-ups before you okay I've already said all this so we're you two being workouts up too and this was just the right anxiety it was just the writing side and I was dabbling in the YouTube arena I didn't know what I was doing and it was one of those cases of I thought I'd put videos up and they would just become viral I mean don't we all do that isn't that right you get on YouTube and you become viral that's how it works yeah sadly I found out real quick that it didn't work in that capacity and I learned it even more so when I broke into sharing people the information I knew about self-publishing write about it March to April of 2016 I had already you know pretty much got some pretty good success it's about January 2016 when I really saw my best performing month and I was like okay this is great well I start getting interviews and people were asking me like I was getting DMS on you know Twitter Facebook email and people were wanting to know how I was doing it and rather than saying the same answer over and again I was like well let me just do a YouTube channel I'll send people over to the videos they can learn that way and I'll become a viral superstar and I'm dump dumb sedale so self-publishing there's so much information out there on it yet I'm guaranteeing that there's people listening that are like what the hell is self-publishing so so I've been working on a book and then one of the inevitable questions that comes up is are you getting published you have a publisher like people don't really a lot of people know what self-publishing is can you kind of paint a picture for people this is why I love you guys podcasts have been listening to it and consuming it for the last couple of months you guys have a quite an extensive backlog you always ask the more basic question so that way everybody understands and this is an awesome one in the fact that not everybody knows what self-publishing is or they have that the stigma of self-publishing so self-publishing means this when I talk about it it's more about publishing books than it is about say self-publishing videos or other types of content but self-publishing essentially means to publish your own content versus trying to find an agent get that agent to find a traditional publishing deal that's through a large publishing house pray for the best get a lot of rejections eventually you know give up you know that type of thing the barrier of entry is far lower its are than what we're used to with the traditional publishing model so that's where self-publishing comes in now the stigma that's there is self-publishing has been around for a long long long long time and well before this modern day model and I'll talk about the modern-day model just a second when self publishing was around say a few decades ago you used to have this weird uncle that would come and do like you know meet up in the reunions you know it kind of smelled slightly off maybe like too much old spice and he would say he had have garage full of books I just published my own book I self-published my own book and you're just kind of like oh well there's where that stigma was that it was believed to be less than it was believed to be inferior to what you would normally see in bookstores and through the traditional publishing houses but that model has changed so so much and why is that because the modern-day self-publishing model and the modern-day version really started off right about in 2008 when Kindle direct publishing launched and this was Amazon's a little baby that allowed independent authors the opportunity to publish their ebooks through their platform and it started to grow and this this information started getting around and people's like oh my gosh I don't need to go through an agent or a traditional publishing deal I can just do this myself and I make more money well this is a no brainer let me just go do this self-publishing model and it's scaled and it's growing even bigger to where people can actually do print on demand publishing for say their paperback books or their hardback books and then even downloadable audiobooks so the modern-day self-publishing model has grown so much bigger and that stigma is starting to fall off because people are starting to become more aware of this very unique model well so talk about what that looks like in regards to the outside courier like okay that's how you publish the book and it gets out there I think people's real fear is that if they don't go with a publishing house they're not gonna be able to like go for book signings going tour like do public speaking like the whole career doesn't exist without it so what does that look like in a self-publishing model well because of the self-publishing model the way it is right now here's the deal as traditional publishing is starting to recognize that model and they're starting to understand that oh we can vet out our deals before we even offer them something well yeah let's go ahead and do this so you have the likes of say in al James you know famous for the Fifty Shades of Grey books she was self-published coming into this and she's one of those poster child's for the whole self-publishing movement and so traditional publishing deals are now starting to look for people that have that built in following that they already have that proof of concept and when it comes to actually doing the same things as traditional publishing just as simple you know you're going well I wouldn't I don't want to brush that under the rug and it's not like it's easy to go over and get speaking gigs or anything like that but you know you're able to still the speaking gigs you're still able to do the author appearances you may even be able to even hire an agent to take care of that or a manager that will handle that type of booking so you still have the same opportunities available to you and again you're able to profit more you're able to keep more and take more home with you having those opportunities and the funny thing is you could be self-published as an author and say well I'm a published author and that's still going to get you some amazing opportunities between media appearances and speaking at conferences it's so interesting because we actually met with someone who is like a booking agent for public speaking and we had mentioned she was gonna self-published it was like actually uncomfortable like she was just like okay maybe the corner book shop down the street would let you talk there but you're not gonna be able to get anything like nationwide or like any basically reach like she was just kind of like you know the people I work with speak at like Yale because they have a publishing deal and I'm like I just feel like it's changing like about doesn't feel right anymore you know it's really interesting Burt for that you know and I'm gonna push back this a little bit I'm gonna be the devil's advocate of something like that yeah I understand probably where she's coming from because that is the universe that she has surrounded herself yeah that she's been a bubble part I'm not trying to downplay what her experience has been but on the flip side of things I know that you know if for some reason Jay decides to self-publish and he wants to get that he is intelligent and articulate enough that if he were to talk to the right people all it's gonna take is just getting on in there and saying here's my book here's why it brings value to your organization and here's why I'm going to send your eyebrows when I come in there and speak at your organization you don't need a traditional publisher to do that the bottom line is this is if you're passionate enough people will sense that there's a good reason why I get on as much podcast people like oh my gosh dude you're awesome like it's because I'm passionate about what I talk about and if you can be the same way or be at least slightly uncomfortable step outside zone and get it to where you can share your passion with other people people will sense that people feed off of positive energy and that's going to be what's gonna really get you on speaking gigs and I'm sure you know many people will probably push back with their own type of argument but I've seen so many success stories within the self publishing community that to say you wouldn't be able to get speaking gigs at Yale or something else I think that's fairly short-sighted and it's really it's kind of demeaning your value as a human being and a person who can actually bring value to everyone regardless of where you're publishing through so Dale so for someone listening that is either considering writing a book or has a book they're looking to publish or self publish let's get into the weeds of the the monetization because it doesn't take a heck of a lot of research to to notice and to see that the margins are very slim in this type of a business and it if you don't do everything correctly and you don't have the proper volume it is kind of hard to make money but on the other side of it there are so many opportunities which you sort of alluded to already like I know some some published authors that are making much more money in public speaking or the book gave them enough clout to open doors that they normally would not have had opened and as you do with like YouTube publishing with all the different avenues that you seek out can you talk about that like if someone's on the fence about writing a book but they've found a YouTube video that says you can only make $1 or $2 per book like why should why they should they bother doing this at all you lack of better ways of putting this is there are gonna be some people that will recommend that you bargain-basement price your books and that way you gain the favor of search ability well obviously if it's lower price obviously more people are gonna buy it and then of course you're going to become more searchable safe through distributor like Amazon or Barnes & Noble or Apple you know so on and so forth but then again you know that ultimately is gonna be up to you and how you price and how the value that you're going to you know put forth when it comes to like say your book description and I mean that's where a lot of people I think fall short is they sometimes see you all this other person's pricing their book $0.99 in my niche I get a price $0.99 – no no that's not true if you really believe that your product is great you know price it where you think the value is at and then from there you're gonna need to address and adjust your value proposition you need to kind of get it to where that book description is going to sell so there's the lower price you know as far as the the profit per sale you know now let's just pretend like you can only profit $1.00 per let's just say that so there are there's many ways to monetize your entire author brand beyond the book because the book is just I would say it's the entry level and you've probably had a few guests on here where they talk about scales funnels and such to where you know you have that entry-level product that brings people into your specific brand and that is what you're gonna need to think about with your book because we need to start to expand beyond that and it could be something simple as putting different product offerings like merchandise so you've watched a few of my videos do you see the shirts I wear that is just kind of passive income I just wear these shirts normally so people see that over say in my teespring store through youtube or they'll go over to Amazon and they'll find that and buy that so that's just another way to monetize it but if you go further down into the funnel you're gonna look at other things we've already kind of addressed being speaking engagements online course creation let's see here online summits coaching there's so many ways you could make it shake it or bake it that if you just looked at the books yeah you know it's gonna be really tough to make a living at just that especially at first but if you can think about how much more you can build off of your brand then you're gonna start to get it okay I can get affiliate deals I can get sponsorships or brand deals I can you know do appearances I can speak at different places so it's this is limitless so many ways so that's what I recommend to anybody that is a currently self-publishing their own books or building their author brand is expand beyond the books it's okay for you to make money outside of writing I know I'm giving you permission right now you can make money beyond just the books hello everyone I just want to take a minute and give a bit of a shout out and plug for our sponsor beauty counter I'm a consultant for this company um it basically all was spawned out of the horrifying statistics that we got to know as we learned about this six year old company out of Santa Monica our current regulations are terrifying and basically haven't been updated since World War two and so there have been about 80,000 new chemicals introduced into our products viet cleaning products skin care products makeup etc they're basically completely unregulated we started transferring our house over about four years ago and this brand has never come out with a product I don't like we completely love it J uses the entire men's line we did a little plug for it as a live video the other day and got a great response so I just wanted to also put up an offer that we are currently giving away a free J elder's poster of your choice you get to choose any piece you like for any orders over two hundred dollars off of beautycounter com forward slash Chelsea alders if you do have to use our website so again that's BT counter com forward slash Chelsea elders thanks so much so let's talk about the money so your your in this enough to know what the average person might be making what can someone expect it's like an average or maybe people you've dealt with where the what are like the upper and lower ends of the spectrum what's sort of the median amount what might a person expect is like a realistic number if you're not someone like our friend Scott that's like raking in six figures a month yes love that guy so you know this was actually something I covered just last week live on my channel where I talked a bit about some of the reports you're gonna see coming out the biggest issue when it comes to some of these reports they're surveys and they're only covering just a small chunk of the actual publishing community not everyone's answering this so you're gonna find some reports that say you know I think there was one that I saw from about five years ago that said that the average was $500 per year that's scary that I couldn't live off that I'll be honest with you nowhere in the world could I live off 500 dollars per year and then you got other reports that say it's upwards of say 20 grand to 40 grand per year so it's it's pretty good and then you have that 1% that are pulling in say $100,000 or more per year so it really varies my experience I've met a lot of indie authors and there are some that are still functioning in the red and then there are some that they just get it within their first year the business they're pulling in I would say average of like say 3 grand 5 grand per month and that's that's decent yeah that's nice especially if you're adding on other revenue streams so how about as much as you would like to be transparent what about yourself like you you have the books you've got the YouTube stuff which I'm sure you're you're working on monetizing as I see you've got some merchandise stuff going on what for you has become some of the bigger streams and where's your focus going now you know it's I have so many hoses going into my bucket whoa yeah this could get really dark here so there are so many things that are going into that revenue stream that you know to be honest publishing polls in quite a bit you know because I have write about north of 3,000 publications online right now because I tell people I'm an indie author but I'm also a publisher so for instance I've built this out to many different types of assets everything from print books be a paperback or hardback to ebooks to audiobooks downloadable audiobooks and I've even expanded out to even more recently creating DVDs believe it or not people still buy those DVDs I'm sorry can you tell the audience what a DVD is it's pretty crazy yeah you know and there's so many so many opportunities that are available so what books what are we talking about here so now when we talked on the phone about a month ago you were telling me about your fitness book and we talked about that what are these other thousands of are you just publishing out there people is that what you mean correct so um you know I've written underneath ghost names pen names excuse me and those probably make up a fair chunk right there so I've done some humor and satire books underneath the pen name I've done some fiction books before okay I've also hired out ghost writers for doing different pen names and such so any time that I'm doing some of these I try to find something I'm passionate about so for instance I like to study Reiki not sure if you're familiar with reading but my mother is a Reiki Master teacher and so I have at least a tenuous grasp on it and I find it very intriguing and interesting so I went out and I found some people that I can actually write about that people that actually I found a Reiki teacher master out in the UK about a few years ago and she wrote like just a fantastic piece for me and it still is a nice little asset that collects some good passive income you know there's a variety of things the other one is and this is something Jay and I we haven't probably talked about was the no content low content book arena and this is one that will kind of blow you away which is essentially think of journals notebooks Diaries planners it anything like a activity or a workbook things that don't require a lot of work in the interior so much as it's a like a graphic design standpoint so that's no content low content books I started dabbling in it in about 2015 I went all in on it in 2016 and that really was another like area that just exploded for me and now it's starting to kind of come to the forefront cuz my wife has been a champion for the cause when it comes to know content and low content books and she you know what saw me you'll become accessible with it and then she of course naturally and I'm sure Ju can relate to this you know the wife goes and just perfects the model and makes it like you know bring in tons of revenue so she just completely crushes it in that arena where are you selling the like journals and that kind of stuff that's Amazon that's actually three Amazon yeah it's super simple process I don't want to make it sound like it's easy but okay to have some things that are a little easier everything doesn't have to be a thousand nut squats yeah right nine thousand squats nor do you have to write a thousand words or much less ten thousand or a hundred thousand words that's the whole premise of saying no content low content books and there is a voracious audience if here's one of the really really cool things you typically will buy a book and you're done with it so I've got a few books on my shelf maybe I'll go back and I'll reread them but I'm not gonna go and buy them again the beauty of no content and low content books is it's it's evergreen people are gonna fill up a book oh I love this particular planner that's made available through Dale's company so I'm gonna go ahead and buy another one and you know I loved it so much I'm gonna buy ten of them I'm gonna give them out to some friends and family so you can kind of see where this business it's a little bit different and I I know that some people within the indie publishing business kind of sneered at it in the same way that you know we kind of get that stigma of self-publishing from traditional publishing they're gonna go oh well this this is this is you know that's not publishing yeah it's a different product it's a different type of skew than say if you were to write a fiction novel yeah two different things but you know for the most part though it's it's a nice little business and if you take it seriously it'll reward you handsomely it's definitely yeah it's definitely a great business move I've read a little bit about it recently I'm wondering I'm wondering like when does it get too saturated they're like how many journals and low content books can there possibly be before they're just like okay we have enough I have a journal and good to go yeah it's I guess that is the real question I honestly I think it's gonna get to the point because there is a big rush for this right now people are uploading literally thousands per day I do not recommend that that's that's just not a good strategy and eventually and this is primarily happening through Amazon Amazon is gonna kind of put their foot down and they're gonna be going okay if these aren't proven concepts if these aren't selling ultimately Amazon's not happy and if Amazon's not happy they're going to find some way to kind of lock it down so I think eventually yeah it'll probably get to that point where they're gonna have like say upload limits and you know the current crop of any authors that are truly coming at this business with a good heart are gonna suffer from that because the people that are coming in for this gold rush are just coming in to make their big quick paycheck and then leave you know for me this is not a quick paycheck this is a business I love and I'm gonna plan on staying around for more years to come do you find that the the business for you is more the YouTube side or more of this this product based publishing side or is it kind of both one of the same or equal to you it's it's turned into a two-headed beast ain't gonna lie to you I think probably over the past few months the YouTube presence and just the self-publishing with Dale brand is starting to match that income that I'm pulling in for all actually publishing the books I'm very fortunate in the position that I am I'm what's called a bronze level youtuber and that means that I've have over ten thousand subscribers over on you too being part of the YouTube Partner Program I'm gonna let everybody know you don't get paid very well for Adsense folks and I've even shared some of you know my CPM with other youtubers in private and I guess that actually make a little more than what some people do so I'll tell you this that if I had to rely on Adsense alone I'd probably go broke but there are other opportunities such as you know sometimes when I've had sponsors for my videos or I've even had say affiliate programs those those take care of me and those actually start to build up and the nice thing is I'm getting again so many revenue sources coming in I was gonna say the hose is in the bucket thing but you guys they're laughing I'm so stuck on this than the spray it was that spray and pray so interpret can you all right so let's get into the into the details here so someone has an idea for a book or they have a book what sort of steps are involved like let's demystify the whole process the very first step and this is the one I see most people get hung up on is create the content write the content first if you've never written the book don't worry about the next steps don't worry about your marketing plan don't worry about an editor don't worry about a book cover or your book description or your price point or setting up a website none of that just write the content I've had so many people that have come up to me say like a couple years before and they'll say oh whatever I do but write the book they come back you know later on and they're going you know so so what do i do what do I do I'm a did you write a book no but I was thinking about you know maybe having a different cover and I'm like don't worry about that just write it first and I am giving 100% permission to everyone listening to this you can write any type of garbage you want you just allow yourself the ability to write without any judgment inside your head because that's what a lot of people run into is they're too busy thinking about this perfect product that's in their mind and as they start to write it out they either become stuck through writer's walk or they get stuck having to hit the backspace delete multiple times just trying to get their first draft out first draft should always be the worst draft just get that on out the way it's tough for me as I'm pointing one finger forward there's three pointed back at me here and the reason is I am just as guilty from hitting that backspace I will get into and I start to get into a flow and they'll be I'll as I have missed felt that or that wasn't the right word but I'm getting better and I think that if you find you practice every day at writing you're gonna get better every day at writing so that's your first step write the book next step is going to be finding a good editor and this is where you're going to make sure that you're surrounding yourself with other people that are like-minded or inside this business already so find a good ND author community be it on Facebook LinkedIn any kind of forums just connect with them and get referrals for someone who's willing to edit your work and your editor should not be your friend okay it shouldn't be your mom it shouldn't be your closest cousin or my mom being in heaven or my god I could attest to the other thing I have a developmental editor and I learned during the writing process of my book there are like 14 million different types of editors it's yep unbelievable but yeah my my editor is incredible and she definitely comes off at times is like oh my god you're not giving me more work are you serious but it's it's made my book it's like world's better exponentially better just by pushing that bar up higher and higher and higher so let's let's assume everyone has the the book it's written it's edited it's great content I want to sort of really explain to people in a understandable way you've got this file okay now what do you do you're not giving it to a traditional publisher you're not giving it to an agent you know what you could talk about I know like there's Ingram spark there's Lulu's all these different types of services what are these things how do they work you know can someone feel comfortable doing it on their own yeah talk about that a little Dale okay so let's just assume you've got it edited you have your file ready to rock and roll I always recommend to newbie authors figure out what is your end goal where do you want to be what do you want to get from this and most instances about 99% of the time a lot of people just want to be published they just want to get their stuff out there and hopefully make some money in return so I say go to where most of the people are congregating and most of people being the browsing customers the readers and that would be Amazon Amazon's one of the world's largest online retailers and if you can find that path that's great there's numerous ways to get on Amazon but I'm gonna give you the path of least resistance and that's through Kindle direct publishing you've got two different iterations you can publish your book through its through eBook and print book through the Kindle direct publishing platform by the way if I say KDP just Kendall direct publishing for short so get it through that Avenue now there are numerous tutorials that you can take advantage of like you can watch my channel or something as simple as KDP jumpstart KDP jumpstart is an online course that Amazon offers and it walks you through all the process of how do you format your book how do you upload it what type of keywords do you need to do I've gone through the course myself you know a lot of people probably think I'm insane because I already know this stuff but I think it never hurts to kind of hear exactly how they want it in their own words and so Amazon's KDP jumpstart free program walk you all through it and then you can kind of get a good idea as to how to do it from a all the way down to Z so that way you're not missing any steps and you know exactly what to do once you upload the KDP for the first time it's gonna seem nerve-wracking and you hit that publish button you kind of like you're gonna tense up a little bit and then you finally hit that publish button it's it's gonna be a relief you're gonna feel better and it's it's a very fun but as soon as you do it at least once you're gonna find it gets easier with each time that you publish a book and also let's just say for instance you publish a book there and you're like I'm not too impressed with Amazon KTP well at least you have the experience of knowing exactly what to do what to look for because then you can look at other platforms like an Ingram spark or a Lulu or any of the other aggregate publishers that are out there what are we looking at in terms of numbers with these other publishers like are they even coming close to these Kindle things or these Amazon owned programs or is it like like I don't know those other companies but are they just as Bank you know it comes down to availability and product offerings so here's a fun one yeah though they're not gonna touch Amazon and I don't think it's gonna be anytime soon in fact probably the I'm just remembering off top of my head the closest competitor is Apple thank our student handbooks and they don't even have print books all they have is ebooks and audiobooks yeah oh they're already kind of hamstrung anyways it will probably be game-changing if Apple ever decides to break into print on demand but you know when it comes to the other opportunities Ingram sparks probably gonna be one nice area because here's a fun fact KTP actually uses Ingram content group also the parent owners of Ingram spark they use Ingram content group for their expanded distribution which it is probably the widest distribution for print media there is today they reach out everywhere and the nice thing with Ingram spark kind of putting KTP off to the side here is if you go through Ingram spark you could actually get brick-and-mortar store distribution so if you want to get into the local mom-and-pop you know store Ingram Sparks one of the ways to do it or if you want to get over into Barnes & Noble Ingram Sparks one of the ways to do it so it just varies per platform and sometimes they have unique offerings so for instance lulu they have different types of products outside just the normal paperback and back they actually have calendars available they have planners they have so many different things available for print on demand so it offers it offers so much more than say if you were just to go with KTP alone that's interesting so yeah what I'm wondering is if someone's going with a traditional publisher can people switch off to self-publish can you go back and forth you said earlier that there's definitely the route of doing self-publishing and then going through traditional but if someone does stick to the idea of I'm definitely going with their traditional publisher doesn't the publisher kind of own your your rights to your book at that point or is that not true it varies per agreement so this is gonna be something that you're gonna want to have a lawyer look through your paperwork if you've already signed an agreement you may or may not be allowed to self-publish and stuff I'm gonna go ahead and mention big youtubers names Evan Carmichael fantastic guy by the way you got to check out his channel he actually is what we call a hybrid publisher he has a traditional publishing deal I think this is through penguin house and he also self publishes other content so he has something within his agreement that allows him the freedom to publish outside of that traditional publishing deal and they're okay with that and actually I can't remember the report darn it I mentioned this last week hybrid publishers actually make a bit more than say someone who is just traditional publishing or someone who's just self-publishing having the best of both worlds so I have a question so with you having all these different projects and all these so-called hoses and buckets okay do you have like a team in place that you user it's each project is going off to different people like do you have artists you work with do you have an editor you always use are you doing everything by yourself a lot of it I do myself but I do lean on some good cover designers from time to time I've probably got about a pool of about four or five that I rely on okay I tried doing the covers myself but I just got to be honest with you it's hit there there there bad no no matter how many times and I try to do my own covers they're not the greatest but I do know I can always get a good rough sketch of what I want for a cover yeah and I'll hand it over to a cover designer and they can typically just make it look good for lack of better words they they make chicken salad out of chicken [Laughter] as far as editors see now the last written book that I put out myself has been over two years ago and my editor has since moved on to other things and I don't think I'm gonna be able to contractors so I'm in-between editors in between writing books I will be putting together writing a book everything else in between videos thanks so much down watch three hours of really help different topics and there's definitely not as big of a barrier to entry with writing a book like there used to be yeah I think that's the coolest part is just like you kind of like Oh like I can do all of this on my own and for those of you out there who are like what if I can just like Google how to self publish it actually is possible now whereas before like we talked about in this interview to like I feel like every time we and we mentioned we're going to self publish people like oh then you're not really a writer didn't really like stick that we're really doing a real thing it's weird all these things are changing we met that girl in Asbury remember that high school girl she was about to go to college with like that tattooed girl had at the end of the show oh yeah so she was she she said I was like hey you know what do you want to do with your your art because she's going to study and she said well probably my I'm sure she's seen this on YouTube because everyone's saying this I'm sure my job has not even been invented yet and it's like strange because so much of this stuff is changing like self-publishing is no longer this secret voodoo thing that you have to you know be lucky enough to get discovered yeah like I liked as metaphor of just like it was your creepy uncle like and it was actually funny I was the whole time I was thinking we like actually had someone like no names but like someone who was that guy who like came to us with like this like self-published book just about funny things he said in his life and that was like that exact moment oh yes it's like these are funny things I've said and he like was able to publish it and we were like oh this is like so funny and that was what self-publishing was and now it's like no you're getting legit books it's almost becoming it reminds me of like the ingrid michaelson of music where you're like like you don't need a needle you can be unsigned yeah and do it I love you too you're at Rosener underwear okay I'm not my underwear thank you very much nice tie I'm in my pajamas which for the record is the same amount of material as a dress I'm going to wear in about 20 minutes because it's my pajamas it feels different it's different it's like a bikini versus underwear it's the same thing but for some reason same parts are covered same parts are covered guys just different though there is a difference he's not hearing a word coming out of my mouth is our superpower sometimes there's oh there's a part of them that you're allowed to be like I'm gonna use this and distract you well like conquer the world alright to find feminism go ahead I'll put Gaby on for an episode yeah we cannot Gaby is our feminist friend that studied feminism right then she got a master's in it or I don't I don't know what her master's was in but she's she's our most feminists or one of our most feminist friends but and we loved we're like super close we love her and we love getting debates and she has yet to be able to define feminism so if you guys have a definition for us go ahead and let us know because J likes to pick fights he's trying to pick a fight with me but it's not good well my whole thing with it I don't have a problem with the biggest we have a daughter and I want women to feel empowered but I'm I thing is I want everyone to feel empowered I just want people to be like less separate and less labels right so you should talk with more people with penises and talk to them about being more empowering for women Wow is that what you want to teach yourself that kind of an attitude the current political climate for us is what ends up in that people wouldn't anuses that's my that's my problem with feminism it's the me versus you thing and then I get lumped into but that's the thing is that you you are this part that's the difference you are not lumped into you are the person but happiness therefore I'm being lumped into the no back so toxic masculinity thing that is as accurate there is that thing but yeah it but it's that but the here's the thing is I just said you should talk to more of this this community of yours it's not is that my community but it's my 50 percent yeah because it is the same wobbly bits but that's not my community or these the people that I hang out with I mean Trump was over the other day yes we're here just skateboarding outside here Trump and I were doing a you know kick flips out you mind grabbing vaginas yeah there yeah yeah we were doing that and then we were what else we were doing we're you're hanging out with the Russians today before that yeah so those are your people yeah that's my tribe that's one of those double standards that you can't just lump that's not a double standard goes the other way too no you can't just say I can't just say oh all those guys with vaginas blah blah so you never say oh it often is just more comfortable for women to be doing these roles you say that all the time I tell me if I'm wrong I say the exact same thing on both sides well exactly your lumping it's about all one thing I say what give me an example oh well I'm not gonna it's you will say things like let's be honest like it is often more comfortable for women to be doing some of like these in-home roles no I'll correct you I will say that I have said that I wouldn't hire a man for some of those roles there's a difference because I do feel like there is an aspect of like that male predatory thing which I fight very strongly with Chang which is now we're just I'm not like defending women in the sense being arrested as high school teachers all the time for sleeping with 14 year olds that is definitely a double standard for sure how was that a double standard I'm saying it's the exact same thing because if I was 14 and I had a hot teacher that wanted to get arrested and rested and I'd be like visiting her in jail saying we have a friend who did that wait was switched yeah I have this friend yeah her husband was in jail for that and she oh yes her husband was however I'm saying it's a double standard super stoked to have a superhot high school teacher boyfriend and I'm saying it's if it was reversed there is a stigma that it's cool not anymore that's your stigma no with guys it's considered like oh that's cool okay it's my fortune not friend sleeping with my house not corny like you're cool saying it's not cool however I think he's a rapist but you're cool cuz he's super hot there's like there's no double standard here this is the same it goes both ways you're setting those that's like a we're getting and you're not understanding me hold me right into this I love it I love this stuff so mad I'm not saying that's a good thing I'm just saying as a man if you were a if you were like a let's say a 16 year old boy and you have a 21 year old hot teacher and you're able to sleep with her mm-hmm that's got some street cred it st. same as the other way around hey guys we're doing some kind of weird debate thing going on here you enjoying it you guys tell everyone what's happening with our pet squirrel someone tell us what's happening here a squirrel climbing on ur house Grayson how do you feel about that ha sad Judah howdy ouch it uh it was climbing on the window door whoa Judah what do you think summer we need your opinion here come here microphone so if Abraham wanted to marry mrs. Larson would that be okay see there you go we are definitely against that you thought your mirror was a sandwich oh my god on our dead dad Judah they and what does their poop look like it's so weird give me some more fiber or something perhaps less actually all right guys so we are gonna I think that's all right so I guess that's our sorry Dale don't know what happened with your outro I really liked your episode a lot oh it's actually great thank you everyone have a great week peace thanks guys we hope you love that episode if you did love it and could give us some love and iTunes that would be amazing you can leave a review and we will give you a shout out at some point on this podcast also if you guys can follow us on social media we would love to hear from you we are on pretty much every social media platform at shifting perceptions podcast which is the same as our website shifting perceptions podcast.com we look and reply to all comments so please share with your friends tag us we appreciate all the love all of our guests also see all these comments so I'm sure if you want to just have a space you can reach out these are the places to do it we also want to give some love to our amazing photographer that has done all of our photos so far Devin Rigby his website is wave light studio llc.com and also our really good friend John Harvey who did the music for our podcast you could find him at Instagram at Harvey Wallbanger so that's our little rolling credits we will be back next week

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